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Bad News,Game Changer,KD?!

TheMFamilyTheMFamily Posts: 255
edited March 2013 in Trying to Conceive
I recently wrote NW and asked about the donor we've been planning on using, beginning later this month. Today I got a response saying our donor has quit donating and there are few vials left. I was crushed. It felt like our past was repeating itself all over again before we even tried.

It's always been very important to me that our children are 100% siblings and ideally look like my husband and not just me. There's no way we can come up with the large amount of money it would take to buy out the remaining and vials and start storing them. Even if we did, it would be a huge gamble to buy them out and just cross our fingers that we can have 2 or 3 children without wasting vials on cycles that don't end up working... I've been a total stresscase since this afternoon and trying really hard not to freak out about my in-laws owing us a large amount of money (basically what would cover all the vials!!) and they basically just informed us they won't be paying it back anytime soon, if at all. WTF?! :mad: Deeeeeeeeep breaths..

So..

Tonight, DH and I were relaxing and I see an episode of the talk show 'Katie' come on and it's all about a new website dedicated to modern families. Like a dating website for people not wanting to date, but to create families. Known sperm donors, co-parents, etc. etc.

About an hour later DH was chatting with my best friend's husband (hubby grew up with HER, now her and I are best friends and hubby is becoming close to her husband) and he was laughing and then got a serious, shocked look on his face. Her husband offered to be our known sperm donor! :o:o:o We love them and their kids like family so I see him as being like a brother-in-law to me. Their kids call us 'auntie' and 'uncle' and we attended their births, etc. She's like my sister and knows everything first and is my person I turn to. I was the one who attended her gender reveal ultrasound because her husband couldn't be there and held her hand when he couldn't make the 39wk appointment. I can't help but imagine inviting her to come to my appointments for added, double meaning. Obviously it's a very serious matter, but they invited us over for dinner this Friday to talk about it. Our jaws are basically still on the floor, but we're hoping we can wrap our heads around the idea before the dinner.

We've been through the known donor route before. FOUR different men backed out at the very last minute for "different reasons." We finally met a "pro" donor online, we tried one cycle, it didn't work/I may have had a chemical pregnancy, and I decided I couldn't roll the dice again--I felt 99% sure the guy was on the Autism Spectrum. Both my brother and cousin on my maternal side are on the spectrum as well... Anyway... After constant heartbreak from 2008-2012 we finally decided we couldn't handle it anymore and we'd go the sperm bank route, even though it wasn't our ideal pick. We'd rather know the man, look into his eyes and get a sense for who he is. See him laugh and if he squints his eyes when he smiles, etc. Obviously these don't truly matter, but it's what we've wanted in the perfect situation.

It's only been a couple hours since this whole conversation happened so I'm still taking it in, but I really am seriously considering this option.

The only "downside" is that my husband is very clearly "light/mixed hispanic" where as the guy is very "white" and has dirty blonde hair and blue eyes. I had blonde and then dirty blonde hair as a child and it later got darker. My eyes are a honey color and would probably take over his blue eyes. Our children would have light skin vs being possibly a little darker than me... As far as features go, his kids definitely look like him, but he doesn't have any intense features at all.

I realized today I am equally attached to our children being full-siblings vs. our children looking just like my husband. Using a local, loving, known donor with-- strong, healthy, tested sperm that has produced 1 boy, 1 MIRACLE girl -- whom can donate for free every single cycle and again for future siblings really has me thinking. I would really have to let go of my fixation of our children looking like my husband, but the idea of my dream of becoming a mother is starting to take over. I just want to be a mom. I just want a family. I can't help but want to absolutely jump at this opportunity. And I can't deny that saving all that money wouldn't be an absolute frigging relief. We could put that money into savings, put it toward my future maternity leave, etc. But I truly see and want the money factor to be the last thing on the Pros/Cons list.

Also, my husband and I have already spoken with a couple different "rainbow" attorneys about the legal side of things and using a known donor. We have an 11-page contract that covers every possible crazy scenario. I'm not worried about the legal side of things. I'm also not worried about him overstepping his boundaries, and obviously that would be at the top of the list of things to discuss over dinner.

So, ultimate question: If you were me, what do you think you would do?
Us: Together since '07, engaged '09, married '11. Trying to start a family since '09. 1 BFN.
Me: Child dev. degree, nanny to 5 for 5.5yrs, digital print artist, portrait photographer.
*Leaving. Message me if you'd like to keep in touch*

Comments

  • HogwaffleHogwaffle Posts: 178
    edited November -1
    I would, but obviously it is up to you and your husband. Does he feel able to love a child who doesn't look like him? I get that its important to you that they look similar, but in the end you can have kids with a man and they don't always look like him!

    We've been trying now for a year, and I am blonde while my wife is Hispanic. At first it was very important to us that the donor look like her since I would be carrying, but at this point? We just want a kid.

    I would consider your relationship with this guy. This is obviously going to make him an even bigger part of your lives. How would he feel if you moved across the country? How does his wife feel? Will all the kids know they are half siblings? If you are doing the insem at home, is he prepared to give up his parental rights?

    It's a huge decision, but it could be awesome.

    We considered a close friend, and we are close to his parents and siblings as well. We were thinking cool, they would all be a big part of the life of any kid we have so this is perfect. But once we seriously got into talking about it, his grandparents and other extended family would want to know the kid because they couldn't not think of it as his. So, we didn't use him. Just another level to consider.
  • MNmommasMNmommas Posts: 1,081
    edited November -1
    That is awesome! I mean, even if you decide not to go that route, at least the option is presenting itself for you guys to choose.

    Personally I would be worried about it affecting our friendship, but you know them and your relationship best so that might not be the case for you. It's great that he already has kids (and a wife) because that makes him less likely to renege on the contract. It sounds like the only part that makes it iffy for you is how much you & your husband want your kids to look similar to your husband. Which you can't ever guarantee even when you're paying for sperm, so who knows, maybe it's better to go with this guy anyways. At least with this guy, you'll go into it knowing that your kids probably won't look like DH. If you paid a bunch of money for sperm and then your kids didn't end up looking like DH anyways, you'd probably be more disappointed.

    Whatever you decide, I'm happy for your family that you have this option! We had a similar option but my best friend lives 5 hours away and we decided we didn't want to deal with lots of traveling and/or figuring out shipping for fresh sperm. But it sure felt good to have that option as a backup!
    Donor 7070, births 2012 & 2013
  • Jen727BFJen727BF Posts: 2,304
    edited November -1
    I would do it! Of course, after the discussion on Friday and making sure your both on the same page. For us, the baby looking like me was never a driving force (that is not to say we didnt wish we could have a baby with both our dna). We have friends who used ds and have two kids--each was carried by one of the women and you can't tell who is the biological mom. They told us that even though its not your biological child, they pick up things from you and that makes them look more like their non-biological mom (hope I made sense there).

    If it doesn't work with this KD, then you go back to searching for a new frozen donor. Let us know how it goes at dinner!
    183190fb-4512-4f04-a781-76af2d6d42b0_zpsrvzisual.jpg
    TTC No. 2 since Aug. 2014; IVF #1 - Cxld; IVF #2 - BFN
  • daniandcassiedaniandcassie Posts: 61
    edited November -1
    Coming from someone that would probably never use a known donor, I say go with your friend. It sounds to me like having full siblings is very important to you. If your friend is committed to this as much as you are, I think that would be the best option. Even if you find a donor with plenty of vials, you never know how many it will take to get your BFP. You could have the best of luck with the first child and could purchase every last vial of that donor and not be able to get another BFP. Like MNmommas said, there are no guarentees that the baby will look like your husband even if you choose a hispanic donor. So using frozen sperm there are no guarentees of it looking like your husband, or producing more than one child with the same donor. At least with a known donor, you could have full siblings.

    I understand your hesitancy to use a known donor with your past experience. But, I think that if your friend is really serious about it, and committed to giving you more than one kid, you should go for it. Only you know what is best for you and your family but in the end you will both make great parents whether you have full siblings that look like your husband or not. A family is a family regardless of genetic makeup.
  • scorpiogrl7scorpiogrl7 Posts: 1,386
    edited March 2013
    In order to fully give up his parental rights, you'd need to go through a doctor and have his sperm tested/frozen/quarantined, then inseminated by the Dr. That's basically using frozen sperm. The costs will probably ran you similar to using a sperm bank.

    If you don't go through a doctor, legally any contract he signs does not hold up in court if he challenges it, and he can sue for custody, have a say in how the child is raised, where they go to school, where you live, what you name it, whose last name it gets, etc.

    People change their minds, and situations change. Imagine if you all had some sort of falling out later down the line, over something unrelated....then he (or his wife) decided they wanted to sue for custody. Bad news bears.

    Like I said, the only way to ensure the courts will see it as him donating and therefore giving up parental rights is to go through a Dr.

    EDITED FOR TYPOS, as I was on my phone.
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  • scorpiogrl7scorpiogrl7 Posts: 1,386
    edited November -1
    Another option would be to do IVF/IVM, that way you would hopefully have embryos to freeze and they would all be full siblings with sperm that looks like your husband's. And one vial would get you all the kids you wanted.
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  • JayJayJayJay Posts: 1,192
    edited November -1
    I would be very cautious about going with someone I know....especially someone I know THAT well and who will be around so much. Even though he does sound like an amazing guy and his heart is clearly in the right place, I don't think there is anyway to know how he will feel (or you for that matter) once he sees that child. Will he or she look like his daughter or son? And then you have to consider that their kids and yours would be siblings. How would that be? I did end up getting pregnant with a KD for mainly the same reason as you....I wanted to be more certain of full siblings. But personally, I just would find it too weird. Then again, I am single so I have the added worry of would he want to fill the dad role again? The fact that you have a husband makes that worry not as huge. That's all just me though. For some I think it does work.

    Personally I wouldn't be as hung up on the looks part about it, because even if you found a donor IDENTICAL to your husband there is no guarantee your kids will look anything like him. I have a friend who is white, who has two kids with someone who is 100% Mexican. The oldest doesn't look a think like her mom and you would t know she was half white. The youngest, on the other hand, is her moms little mini me, without a bit of dad in her and you would never guess she had any Mexican blood in her. Also my sisters kids.....my nephews are 100% dad...just mini mes of him. My niece, she looks just like my sister and my mom without a bit of her dad in her. Genetics are all a gamble like that, you just never know.

    For me, when I was picking donors, both frozen and KD, I wasn't really focused on that Kind of thing. Actually for me it was probably too easy for me to pick a donor (except with KD - I was careful to pick someone who I felt secure in knowing he wouldn't come after my kid) because to me I looked at each donor and knew that even if he didn't have my ideal qualities, he would give me a child that I absolutely adored and who couldn't be more perfect for me. I actually felt bad passing up donors because I felt like I was passing up those potential children. Weird I know! But still true. If you go with him, or any other donors for that matter that look nothing like hubby, you and hubby will not care one bit if that child looks nothing like him ounces he's born, because you will fall instantly in love and THAT will be your perfect child.

    Oh and BTW....I think you and him actually look an awful lot alike, so maybe your own genes will help out there!! :-)
  • anna77anna77 Posts: 283
    edited November -1
    I am in general opposed to known donors (my disclaimer!), but in some instances I think it could work out. However, I personally would run from this situation as fast as humanly possible. I understand that these are great friends of yours and it seems ideal right now, but there are so many many things that could go wrong in the future. Feelings people never thought they would have can change when they see "their" child running around, and how would his wife feel about it? Even if she says she is fine with it now, you never know what could happen in the future. And I don't even want to *think* about the legal situation you could get yourself into if this goes wrong. I don't mean to be a debbie downer, and you don't know me at all so you can take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think it could be potentially disastrous for your family and his for you to choose this path.
    Anna 38 (mommy to 3 boys...11, 9 & 2)
    #3 was conceived with DS via our 6th IUI (2 natural, 2 clomid, 2 follistim+trigger)
    Trying for one more blessing to add to our family:
    IUI #1 9/25 (follistim+trigger) BFN IUI#2 (follistim+trigger) 10/23 BFP!...mc 6w3d
    IUI#3 2/5 (follistim+trigger)...Test Date 2/19
  • wasnervouswreckwasnervouswreck Posts: 356
    edited November -1
    I would !

    The reason is the genetics are a crap shoot. I know, I know people will say the kids will be this or that coloring, but you never know.My daughters father is filipino. DARK with black hair and dark brown eyes. my daughter is very light ( but can get a very dark suntan with minimal sun exposure) dark hair and green gray eyes.

    Also I have found people are so self centered that they don't see simularities unless they are actively looking for them. For example my youngest looks like my KD's kids she has the same exact smile and mannerisms. But, only if I point out the simularities. Otherwise people say she looks like me , DH or my other daughter who is half filipino.I worried that the youngest would get KD's distinctive nose and smile .I mean honestly I didn't want to use him I was sure if she looked anything like her half siblings everyone would know. I have no idea wear she got it but, she got a button nose just like her sister. And no one in my family has a button nose except those two.

    Only you can make the descision about what you are looking for and what is non-negotiable in your search for a donor.But, I know for me seeing a person is healthy and well adjusted trumps race, skin/hair color.

    Good Luck in your choice. Whatever you decide you will be happy.
  • TheOtherLovingMomsTheOtherLovingMoms Posts: 1,481 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would not let his blonde hair blue eyes and "white" skin stand in your way , genetics are so crazy, your baby could come out looking NOTHING like the donor. Even if you were to pic a donor from a bank that had similarities to your husband, there is not guarantee that the baby would have any of those similarities. I can tell from your posts how badly you want to be a mom, so I would let that want/need to be a mother be my deciding factor and not the traits of the "donor", whether it be a known donor or one from a sperm bank. The things that I would be more worried about than his looks is whether or not he is going to bail on you, like the others have, and what kind of role he is going to want to play in the child/children's life, and is he going to be able to give up all rights to any children that may come from his donation. I think it is great that you have someone so close to you that is willing to do this for you.
    Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
    IGXwm4.png
    I just turned 50 and fabulous!!! Enjoying life with my amazing family!!
    Mom to Rachel 33, Bethany 30, Rebekah 30, Zachrey 20 and several angel babies
    Grandma to Larissa 11, Brittney 11, Trevor 11, Destiny 7, Jayvin 6, Jackxon 3, Kaleb Joshua Rian 1. Grandbaby #8, Sariah Grace born 11-17-16
  • cocobaycocobay Posts: 1,318
    edited November -1
    I didn't read the responses so I hope I don't say something that has already been said. When we were in the time period before actually TTCing and were weighing options, gathering info, research, etc. We had a few very close friends offer to donate. The idea sounded so great at the time. It would be free, they could donate easily because we lived close, fresh sperm lived longer, etc. We also have an attorney who is very gay friendly, she is a lesbian herself, and has donor sperm children, and she advised us against a known donor. Any contract can be over turned by a judge. My thing is, this man may think the idea is great. No doubt he loves you guys and so does his wife. BUT- he's never been in this situation before. What if he sees your baby and changes his mind? What about the wife? It CAN happen.

    I would never use a KD. After having a child and one in utero through a sperm donor with a sperm bank, I can say all of this with certainty. Our children are OURS. There is no other factor in the equation, no one to say, "Hey, that's really my kid". I would go insane if I had to feel that there was some other person who saw my child/ren often and thought they were actually theirs too.

    Having said all of this- if you are considering using this KD that doesn't look anything like your husband, why can't you just pick another donor through a sperm bank? I can say that our child doesn't really look anything like my wife and it doesn't matter either way to us. He is perfect, and he is our son! We were meant to have him and he was meant to have us.

    I hope you can make the decision that is right for you. It's definitely not easy planning your family having to use donor sperm.
  • sobadicantsteitsobadicantsteit Posts: 278
    edited November -1
    Too scary. Its almost better if you were not close to them. I don't think anyone should be that close that they could rip your family apart. Money is there to be made.
    fro.jpg
    ttc #1 6/11 1 Vial BFN
    ttc #2 3/12 3 Vials BFN
    ttc #3 4/12 1 Vial BFN
    ttc #4 March 2013 medicated cycle iui via ob/gyn!!!
  • InfertileMyrtleInfertileMyrtle Posts: 46
    edited November -1
    I can only imagine how attractive this offer must look to you: free, unlimited, fresh sperm.

    BUT, I'm with the others who think this couple is just "too close to home". The idea of her going to YOUR u/s(s) with you for a "double meaning" makes my skin crawl. Ok, so meaning #1 she's there in support of her BFF, because she loves you. And meaning #2? Because you're pregnant with HER HUSBAND'S child?!? Oh no. That is *already* very much stomping on boundaries. Can you imagine what your DH would think when realizing that she sees that child as HER husband's, instead of YOUR husband's? That alone is reason enough to step back and politely decline.

    What the PP said about contracts being null and void unless done through a doctor's office (and therefore costing almost, if not more, than buying bank sperm)... That's a huge, valid fact that I didn't realize existed.

    Be very, very careful. I can 100% see why this offer is attractive. Would I do it? No. Circumstances change and people change their minds. Friendships break up- especially when such an emotionally charged situation is involved. As others have said, I'm sure they are 100% sincere in their motives and intentions. But the fact remains, no one can possibly know how they will feel when they watch your child(ren) grow up. There is little to no guarantee. And keep in mind, he could still back out of being the donor for a future sibling. What if his wife talked him into his feelings about it and right now he's seeing it "her way". But one child (yours) and a divorce from his DW later, he no longer wants to take any part? That's it. There's nothing that can be done. I also think you should choose a different donor (from NW or another bank).

    This seems too risky to be involved in, IMO. ((HUGS))<3
    Stephanie (SMBC after ttc for 18 unsuccessful cycles with azoospermic exDF)
    IUI#1 (by RE)- 3/3/2013 with Donor 3688<33
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  • earrefinnejearrefinnej Posts: 447
    edited November -1
    If I could have a known donor, I would. Life is scary - so what. We all take risks and if you take as many precautions as you can and save money by not purchasing sperm anymore, but by putting it into the necessary testing (STD screening in the least as he has proven his swimmer's ability already) and the legal fees, I say go for it. I asked my wife's nephew (her ownly viable genetic connection) and my friend's husband. Both were not open to the idea. My wife's old boss (really a friend now) offered up his donation but he wanted to be a parent, which is not what we want. So on to donor sperm... I wish I could have some relationship with a donor for my child to know, but if not... we'll work on giving him/her everything we can without it. There is a good book I have about alternative family arrangements - I'll get the title for you because it is a good read. I've even considered helping a friend out with a pregnancy that she cannot have if I'm successful in my own pregnancy - something to consider for the future. My wife's co-worker did that for someone, and while she feels a little torn at time, she has an opportunity to give the love she enjoys with her daughter to a gay male couple and can babysit every once in awhile. I think that's great.
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  • melandfomelandfo Posts: 490
    edited November -1
    FWIW last year we were presented with the same offer from some very dear friends of ours. The KD looked nothing like DP but we felt that it was too good of an offer, especially after spending so much money on DS for the 7 months prior.

    The KD and his family were like family to us. We spent holidays together, we were their youngest child's godparents etc. We decided to take them up on it after a couple months of conversations, making sure EVERYONE involved was comfortable and on the same page about roles. We drew up a donor contract, signed it and had it notarized and did four well times insemination's. After the first insemination we attended a wedding together, the KD was making jokes about everything and I could see his wife was not as OK with it as she thought she would be and to be honest our friendship has not been the same since then. It is a little awkward and uncomfortable. We did not even talk for a month after- neither ever asked if it had worked. I think that the idea sounded great and they truly wanted us to be parents but I think after it was all said and done it was too much for them.

    I am not saying by any means that it would end up like this for you or that how it worked out is normal. I just wanted to offer you something to consider because I can see how much you value the friendship with them. GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide!! :)
    Courtney and Melissa
    TTC # 1 w/PCOS & Hypothyroid
    17 cycles finally BFP
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  • aplusaaplusa Posts: 1,919
    edited November -1
    Not saying I'm against the known donor, but I feel like the general thought is a known donor offers an unlimited amount of free sperm forever versus a sperm bank. Well, ok, vials sell out, but if you purchase them ahead of time - barring a natural disaster - those vials are yours. We made sure we had saved up enough for twelve vials before we even started to try so we'd have that money for buying vials for siblings. (Not that that worked out the way we hoped it would.)

    I guess I just don't feel that using a known donor is a guarantee for sperm for life. One, as someone above mentioned, people move. You could move or he could move. He could get cancer and his sperm would be gone. He could die, god forbid. And theres always the chance he could just change his mind. As someone above said, you could cryopreserve his sperm and then you'd have a back up.

    Also, what if you don't get pregnant the first cycle, or second, or eighth, or fourteenth ... Will you want to keep working with him? That may be a good thing to talk about in Friday. Expectations from both sides. Also, how many donations per cycle.

    And then, I think your husband will need more time than just til tomorrow. My partner and I discussed IVF for months, maybe even a year, because we knew if we went down that path the likelihood that all our children would be from my eggs would be very, very high. When she heard how many embryos would be frozen I think the reality hit her with a ton of bricks that they would not have her DNA. Obviously your husband's DNA is sadly not an option, but his features or coloring may have been. Yes, genetics are a crapshoot, but put two naturally dark haired people together and you cannot get a blond. You did say you had blond hair as a child, so that further adds to the jumble.

    Oh, and I'd get the guy tested for everything. But that's just me.

    And, there are many benefits to a known donor, of course!
    7NZpm4.png
    Lucky Cycle 14: IVF!! Antagonist Cycle with Lupron Trigger
  • tyme2risetyme2rise Posts: 1,087
    edited November -1
    Here is a lil story from my personal experince.
    I have had two know donors. The friend closest to us was over this past weekend. ( we used his swimmers for 9 months) we were eatting dinner and drinking. Iv been on a break from ttc. So we were getting pretty intoxicated, my wife and jen went to go wax the snowboards down stairs. Leaving me alone with Kd. Anyways he confessed he wanted ME to have HIS baby! Not me and my wife. Just him and me!!! I told him No! That the re at fertlty clinic will not deal with fresh sperm . From a kd! It was creepy. I never felt like this. Its crazy how drinking people just dont think about what they are saying there true feelings. The conversation went on for 20 min. It was like he was convincing me to try . Akward... ! I finally just yelled , no! We ONLY want frozen! We are really close with kd treat him like family. So I went down stairs to go to bed! (I wanted to tell wife about this when I was alone) Anyways, I just wanted to tell u this person story just showing no matter how close u are some times the kd may have other intentions. It is a blessing I didnt get pregnant bc he would want to be the Father. And thats not at all what we want!!!
    So, what ever u choose think about the intentions of kd. Ps my wife freaked the bleep out! And is sooo glad we didnt get prego with his swimmers, or our whole life would be messed up right now.
    .sorry about spelling errors I'm on my phone.
    Good luck.
    Caryn.
    Some day my dreams will come true!
  • GoobieGoobie Posts: 3,515
    edited November -1
    I haven't read all the other responses, so some of this could be repeat, some of it could be inaccurate as well, since i am in a different country with different laws.

    BUT... We DID do it. Ivy and Jose (baby in the belly) are from a KD who is a good friend of ours. We call them "chosen family" and do the Auntie/Uncle thing with ours and their kids. We originally wanted a donor who looked like my partner, but in the end, it was ahealthy baby we wanted... and when TTC Ivy (our #5) we already had a range of various coloured hair and eyed children. Our KD has the same colouring as I do (as blonde as you get, pasty white skin and blue eyes) so we KNOW that all offspring from him and I will be German looking blonde haired blue eyes babies. He looks like he could be my brother, honestly!

    I think that you need to taljk with your husband about this, and the choice can only be made between the two of you. Tim wanted another child, he ultimately did not care if it looked like him or not. Of our soon-to-be-6 children only one of them is biologically his.... and he's blonde like his mom! Appearances can be a crap-shoot if thats how you're shopping for sperm anyway.

    Now on to the legal stuff. Using a KD can be scary. Yes, they can come after you for rights to the baby. No contract you draw up, even if notarized and signed by a lawyer will hold up in court. Period. BUT, if you know them well enough and trust them enough, then only you know if you can go through with it. We have a contract, but I'm not worried anyway. We DO have teh relationship with KD and his wife that we joked around about how if he ever took us to courth for visitation and parental rights, then we could go right back looking for child support for the missed time - it was before we had even conceived Ivy and frankly we all had a great laugh over it. Thats our relationship.

    His family knows that our daughter is biologically his. It took til she was 9 months before he had the guts to tell his mother, who is very family oriented (as in, hoity toity). It took her 2 days to realize the wonderful, unselfish thing he did to help us, and now she thinks that Ivy is one very special little girl, but does not refer to herself as "grandma" to our child. KD will call me up and ask "hows our little girl doing?" (in a joking tone) but has no desire to be her father. She HAS a Daddy, and thats not her donor, thats Tim! We will not hide the fact that she is a donor child from her or the next one, we are open with EVERYONE about it, and when the time comes we will tell the kids who their donor is... we WANT them to be able to have that. But again, we have that relationship with their family.

    Bottom line, only you and your husband can chose in this area. And bash me if you want, but I think your husbands opinion is more important then yours at this stage... using this KD will mean that there is no chance that his children will look like him. It is HIM that has to live with that, accept that, and be at peace with it. This is the cross we have to bear when we love men with fertility problems. Correct me if I am wrong, but in a way I think lesbian couples have it easier, in that it is a given that they will be using a donor. Overall, I am not saying it is easier one way or the other, but for SOME men, infertility leads them to believe they are less of a man, and unless they are willing to stand in the middle of the mall holding their newborn and announce loudly, "this is my child, the product of artificial insemination using donor sperm" then this could be a sore spot that might not even be realized, much less voiced. If you have a child who is lighter in skin tone then either you or your husband, are both of you prepared to get the whispered "did she cheat on him??" behind your back - because it very well might happen.

    My advice. Talk talk talk about it. First with your husband. Then with your friends. Then with your husband again. Keep charting... but don't start TTC for a few more months. If in say 3-6 months you are ALL on the same page and no feelings have changes and nothing in your relationship has changed, then proceed with caution. Because yes, it IS weird having your best friends husbands sperm running down your leg, after YOUR husband put it there.
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    Need to update a ticker, Silas Anthony Jordon born Oct 11, 2013. 6th baby, so much love!
  • TheMFamilyTheMFamily Posts: 255
    edited March 2013
    Thank you ALL for taking time to read what I wrote and writing back responses from your heart. I don't have a ton of time to respond to it all tonight, but I'd love to address the concerns that were brought up. Can I just say how much I love that there were so many different views brought up?

    I spoke with a third lawyer today who, like the others, reassured me that in our state, now more than ever, known donors who donate sperm to a married coupled using a written agreement do indeed stay donors. I realize all it takes is one conservative judge to challenge it all, but after spending hours reading the actual laws today (oy!) I do feel comforted.

    My husband and I had a long talk about it all, both last night and this morning. I really came to realize I have been focused to the idea of our children looking like my husband because I was assuming that would be emotionally easier on him. He made it very clear that while it does hurt knowing he will never have biological children, the appearance of our children does not matter to him at all. He has accepted that genetically, it's not going to happen for him, it's just not, but that our babies will be our babies, whether they're pasty white or dark as night, none of that matters to him.

    Truthfully I have been more cautious about this (and most everything else) than he has. I am the serious, thinker, planner "what if"fer out of the two of us, but I'm also a very positive person. I can assure everybody that we will discuss every last bit of everything before jumping into a known donor situation. And even so, I'm not hiding my head in the sand; I do realize there will always be the slight possibility that it could all go downhill. But, the positive person in me also recognizes that more likely than not, this could be the answer to our prayers and the reason it's never worked out in the past.

    Tomorrow I will go to work and then we will go immediately to their house for dinner. The fact that they have a newborn might slightly cloud my judgement, but I'll be sure to take notes. ;)

    As far as the "double meaning" "making your skin crawl" I'm not sure what to even say to that. While this situation may not be what you would choose, I love the idea of us continuing our close relationship with our families, so of course there is going to be an even closer connection if our children share 1/2 their DNA.

    As far as trying cycle after cycle, we'll discuss this with them. The wife has severe PCOS so they struggled with fertility--they get that it doesn't always take just a couple tries. They really struggled having their first baby and had a SA done to confirm it was not the husband's sperm causing any additional problems. They were told the wife would never ovulate on her own and even with fertility drugs it was hard to make it happen and took quite some time. Their new baby was an absolute miracle and surprise. My point is that they understand more than just seeing it as a charity case, but because they know what it's like to want to have kids and not have any hope. The husband has made it very clear he doesn't want any more kids. In fact the other day they gave us a ton of baby clothes their first born has grown out of and joked that there would be "NOOO need for it" lol. Obviously, again, time can change people and he could change his mind down the road, I recognize that.

    At this point the ultimate decision is absolutely my husband's, given that I am okay with it. My husband and I both have already made it clear we're more concerned with THEM being okay with the situation both now and in 5, 10, 15 years, forever. We know he wouldn't offer if he didn't take it seriously, but we want them to truly think about it all--their own families, their kids, etc. Overall, I think dinner will hopefully clear the air and help us see what they envision, what their concerns are, and vice versa.
    Us: Together since '07, engaged '09, married '11. Trying to start a family since '09. 1 BFN.
    Me: Child dev. degree, nanny to 5 for 5.5yrs, digital print artist, portrait photographer.
    *Leaving. Message me if you'd like to keep in touch*
  • Jen727BFJen727BF Posts: 2,304
    edited November -1
    Good luck with dinner!!!
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    TTC No. 2 since Aug. 2014; IVF #1 - Cxld; IVF #2 - BFN
  • aplusaaplusa Posts: 1,919
    edited November -1
    Ditto what Jen said!
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    Lucky Cycle 14: IVF!! Antagonist Cycle with Lupron Trigger
  • InfertileMyrtleInfertileMyrtle Posts: 46
    edited November -1
    I'm sorry - I didn't mean to offend you. :| It just freaks *me, personally* out to think about allowing someone outside of your marriage to be so intimately involved with your child. And I don't mean physically, that's one thing. I mean emotionally. It's one step from her viewing your child as her own. Right now, that may not sound so horrible, but you're also swept with emotions about this, and I'm an emotionally unbiased outsider looking in. Once you are settled into being pregnant or holding your baby in your arms, how will you feel if she starts making comments that feel "off" or emotionally threatening to your bond as mother and child? This may not be an issue. I hope it isn't. This could be an incredible opportunity for all involved.

    Idk. I can see that you're really doing your homework on this. Just take your time. And try not to let that beautiful newborn sway you- that would be extra hard! <3 Is there any way that they could find a sitter while you all discuss? Because honestly, I can imagine it would be ridiculously hard to not look at that child as the "product" of what you guys are discussing. That's not really fair to you and your dh's hearts. How can you say no when that's what your heart desires most? Ya know?

    Again, I'm really sorry. I wasn't trying to offend. My spidey sense just flipped when you brought up her being involved in very intimate situations with you. That's all. <3

    Wishing you the very best of luck, whatever you decide to do!!
    Stephanie (SMBC after ttc for 18 unsuccessful cycles with azoospermic exDF)
    IUI#1 (by RE)- 3/3/2013 with Donor 3688<33
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  • TheMFamilyTheMFamily Posts: 255
    edited November -1
    Thank you, Stephanie <3

    Jen and aplusa, your well wishes worked! Dinner went wonderfully, better than I ever could have asked for. We're going to let the idea marinate in our minds and make sure we cover everything we can, but it is looking very promising. I've made it EXTREMELY clear that if at any moment they decide donating isn't the best idea, no harm, no feelings hurt nor love lost. We all kept repeating that we are on board, but want to make sure everybody is communicating everything they can think of and at any time. We discussed everything we could possibly think of and there were no issues. We have been talking as a group and separately and so far it seems like everybody is sincerely on board and rooting for each other--they want to do this amazing act for us, we want to make sure their relationship and our friendships are top priority and there won't be any issues. Our relationships come first, period. So, now we'll be thinking it over and letting the idea settle. He's going to bring the contract to an attorney and make sure everything is included. And, if we go through with it, we agreed signing in front of a notary would help seal the deal even more. So... Time will tell!
    Us: Together since '07, engaged '09, married '11. Trying to start a family since '09. 1 BFN.
    Me: Child dev. degree, nanny to 5 for 5.5yrs, digital print artist, portrait photographer.
    *Leaving. Message me if you'd like to keep in touch*
  • melandfomelandfo Posts: 490
    edited November -1
    That sounds so great! I am glad you have this opportunity and I hope you get your BFP very soon!! :D
    Courtney and Melissa
    TTC # 1 w/PCOS & Hypothyroid
    17 cycles finally BFP
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  • Jen727BFJen727BF Posts: 2,304
    edited November -1
    Sounds promising!! Very exciting :)!!
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    TTC No. 2 since Aug. 2014; IVF #1 - Cxld; IVF #2 - BFN
  • TheMFamilyTheMFamily Posts: 255
    edited November -1
    Thank you!
    Us: Together since '07, engaged '09, married '11. Trying to start a family since '09. 1 BFN.
    Me: Child dev. degree, nanny to 5 for 5.5yrs, digital print artist, portrait photographer.
    *Leaving. Message me if you'd like to keep in touch*
  • happycalmhappycalm Posts: 8
    edited March 2013
    I haven't posted in a long time but wanted to chime in here. My partner and I used a KD/close friend for our IUIs through a clinic and also on our own when we traveled to visit him. We also discussed donation with 2 other close friends. When you use a directed donor through a clinic (meaning you use a known donor but have a doctor help you), they generally require brief counseling for the woman or couple hoping to become pregnant, the donor and then everyone together. This is usually with someone trained in fertility issues/gamete donation.

    I strongly encourage that those considering using a KD seek counseling even though there is no requirement that you do so. It's a good way to get some peace of mind that everyone has asked and answered all of the questions that need to be considered in a space that is free of pressure or blind excitement or whatever else might be clouding judgement. We went for 1 session as a couple, our donor went alone for one session and then we all met together for one session. It was not cheap. But, for me, it was worth it. You can get some potential therapists through local fertility clinics.

    Truthfully, I can't say I got any ah-has during the counseling and I don't think our donor did, either. But when we stopped using that donor due to logistical issues and moved on to discussions with another friend, we were committed to doing the process again because it did confirm for me that we had covered our bases. That may sound like a great reason NOT to seek counseling, I guess, since we didn't come away with any new understanding. But for us, it was a way of protecting everyone's interest in the same way that seeking legal advice does.

    As for the broader issue of using a known donor, I would never do it another way. In fact, since we have run out of options for KDs, we are moving on to adoption. I feel strongly enough about the importance of not shutting out the possibility of my child knowing their bio-family that I'd rather adopt into a situation where I know this is at least possible than risk a willing-to-be-known donor changing their minds. I say that not because it's the right way but because I think there are a lot of great reasons that people take the legal and emotional risk of using a KD.

    I wish you much luck in your journey of exploration with your friends. Maybe they will become family in a while new way...
  • TheMFamilyTheMFamily Posts: 255
    edited November -1
    Thank you so much for your information, I truly appreciate it. I'm sorry your road hasn't been smooth either, but I'm glad you're moving onto adoption! What an exciting time in your lives.

    I very much agree that it's extremely scary that a donor could wake up one morning and decide to "fall off the face of the planet." I realize disappearing goes with ANY third-party fertility situation, but with the already-limited profiles we receive using a sperm bank has definitely weighed on my heart. No matter what, there's a definitely a risk of something!

    We've all continued to speak with one another and are feeling closer already. We still can't get over the amount of love they have shown us. We still have time to communicate and think things over, butttt, so far, it looks like we'll be moving forward with this blessing.

    Tonight I went back over the 12-page agreement we have used previously, adjusted a few things, and will have our attorneys look it over with a fine tooth comb. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I feel like this is finally "it" for us.
    Us: Together since '07, engaged '09, married '11. Trying to start a family since '09. 1 BFN.
    Me: Child dev. degree, nanny to 5 for 5.5yrs, digital print artist, portrait photographer.
    *Leaving. Message me if you'd like to keep in touch*
  • InfertileMyrtleInfertileMyrtle Posts: 46
    edited November -1
    I am getting really excited for you!! (And I really hate/am sorry that I initially offended you!) It sounds like everyone is in this for the right reasons, and you're moving into a wonderful situation.

    "No matter what, there's a definitely a risk of something!" You are so right... And honestly, I feel silly for not realizing sooner that "open" donors could change their minds at ANY point in time. Seems pretty unfair, IMO. But, I can't change that either.

    It sounds like you are really getting your ducks in a row. Happycalm offered great insight/advice as well.

    :) FX!! Is ttc on hold for this cycle, or have you already purchased a vial or two from NW?
    Stephanie (SMBC after ttc for 18 unsuccessful cycles with azoospermic exDF)
    IUI#1 (by RE)- 3/3/2013 with Donor 3688<33
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  • TheMFamilyTheMFamily Posts: 255
    edited November -1
    I agree the donor's switching over seems very unfair to me. I didn't even realize that was legal. I would assume it is a binding contract that they MUST be at least available to privately identify themselves on some level. =/ I can't imagine how painful that must be for people who purposely made their donor choice based on donor being open to communication in the future. =(

    Seriously, there's no need to apologize. I made a very clear, open question about what each person would do. Donor situations are a little scary no matter which route you take, and I'm glad the concerns were brought up! I'm not living with my head in the clouds and I can full appreciate that any arrangement can go bad over time.

    As far as TTC, we're not totally sure, we still have a couple weeks until I ovulate. We hadn't purchased any vials yet, so I'm REALLY happy I asked NW beforehand. I would be heartbroken if I got a BFP and then found out there were no vials left.

    I will keep you ladies updated! So far, so good! :)
    Us: Together since '07, engaged '09, married '11. Trying to start a family since '09. 1 BFN.
    Me: Child dev. degree, nanny to 5 for 5.5yrs, digital print artist, portrait photographer.
    *Leaving. Message me if you'd like to keep in touch*
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