For my fellow Christians...

ncteacher

Are any of you trying to figure out how God feels about using donor sperm? Have you talked to pastors/read any Biblical stories, etc.?

I talked with my Mom about this last night, and she said she was struggling with this as well...until she read Genesis. She said that there are some infertility stories in there that made her feel more secure about the choice that we have made... I think that I am going to read that this evening. :-)

jes1014

I'm not religious but my parents are (they are both pastors) and they are very much in support of us.

minnie0672

Could you pass them along. This is something that I've thought a lot about as of late. My family is extremely supportive but the one person that doesn't know what is going on yet is my grandfather and I know having this info in my "back pocket" might help a bit.

old mama

I've thought with that too but I do know I pray everytime I AI and ask for God's blessing. I do admit after this last cycle I have been so mad at God so that's a struggle. I think it is just something we have to come to terms with as a Christian.

sugarprincess

Yes my husband and i have struggled with this alot. In the bible i know there were times when men would have children with other women when their wives were barron. They would get pregnant but there always seemed to be some sort of consequence to pay. i just cant accept that God gives us the desire to procreate and be parents for nothing. We have even tried adopting, just the other day i spoke with a birthmother and then she changed her mind. We only spoke, it was not like the first one where we had a shower and were planning on bringing her home within months and she changed her mind. It is very hard to accept not being able to have our own children but almost worse that you cant even adopt!

Autumn&Ryan

I am Christian and I believe science with the help of a higher power made this and other infertility services available for women like you and I.

Goobie

I was born and raised Christian, but have been having anger issues with God since my brother passed last year. It would be interesting to know what those passages in Genesis are, as my family does not know we are using a donor, but I expect the crud to hit the fan when they do find out (my dad is also a pastor, and my mom is worse, one of those ultra-religious nuts who actually told me before Christmas I was going to hell because I am living with a Wiccan... little does she know I am seriously comtemplating converting, since Tims Goddess and belief system fits my life better right now, feels more right!)

Autumn&Ryan

Goobie, your on CD 20 already? wow I didn't realize you were that far in!

Goobie

Yep - 4DPO and since I O'ed later this month, I should only have a 12 day wait instead of 14!!

annerbones

I got fired for getting pregnant while being single - I worked for a Catholic school.

A few months ago I was talking to a mom in my SMBC group and she made this comment "God was the ultimate sperm donor." Duh!

I know there are examples of similar events in the bible - just can't quote them right this second. But women who couldn't get pregnant after years of desperation they would sleep with someone else and get pregnant. Not exactly the same thing but...

kyhome123

My husband is a pastor and has a PhD in ethics from a seminary and we are using DS. He had a V a year after our last child was born and that child died tragically at 21 months. We are using DS instead of going through the process of a VR. He said that if you are ok with having sex without producing a child (i.e. using birth control) then you should be ok with having a child without having sex. I don't see anything in the Bible that would speak against using DS.

sugarprincess

I have too reqd that post in the past and it only angered me since i am sure most of the people posting nasty things have as many children they want and of course are the people God chose to bless with kids. In their mind we are being punished for some reason and dont deserve to be parents!

Jais

First I have to say that I don't think God punishes people that way. I just can't believe that because they are many people who do horrible things but they seem to have everything...kids, money, cars, clothes, etc...so I just can't believe that. Our bodies are flawed anyway and things just go wrong but that doesn't mean that we can't use technology to help us. It would be like a person with cancer not taking advantage of technology that can save their life. Besides people give eggs and sperm to help others right? What is wrong with that?

Flowergirl

I am a Christian and was raised by extremely conservative values and Biblical teaching - I grew up Mennonite, to be exact. My entire family and everyone I grew up with is Mennonite. I no longer practice their religion, but still hold very true to the moral and ethical values they instilled in me as a child. My Dad is a very sincere Christian and without realizing it, he gave me his blessing one day while we were having a random conversation about ways to have a family. He told me that he didn't see any reason why using a donor or a surrogate would be a sin in God's eyes, as long as the actual act of intercourse wasn't involved and all modesty, moral issues were upheld. There is nothing in the Bible that says we are not allowed to use modern technology to help us conceive. And of course, baby Jesus was definitely not conceived the 'old fashioned way' and He is the ultimate example, right?

And, I agree with PP's that God absolutely does NOT punish people with infertility!! If that were true, then all people who have children of their own would be wonderful, perfect parents and be deserving of a bigger 'blessing' than the rest of us. That simply isn't how our God works. My Dad is one of the smartest men I've ever known and he always reminded me while growing up - Everything that happens in life is not the choice of God to punish or bless that individual; the Bible says "The rain falls on the just and the unjust." and we just have to accept that God allows 'life' to happen and remember, He is always available to help us through whatever it is that comes along. Not to discredit God in any way and say He doesn't choose to bless certain people, in certain ways, at certain times, or even choose to withhold certain things at certain times; I'm just saying, in my understanding, it isn't all in His planning and we cannot blame Him when things don't go our way or things happen that we don't understand, anymore than we can believe that every good thing that happens is a direct 'blessing' from Him (such as a beautiful baby). With that being said, regardless if it's God' choice to bless us with a baby, or just a matter of life that He allows to happen, I will most definitely praise and thank Him when we are blessed with our precious baby!

sugarprincess

Im not saying i think we are punished, i think the people on the posted link think those things. Since they have not walked in our shoes they have no idea what it is like but sure have a lot of nasty advise to give.

slady357

Very interesting posts. My husband and I are Christians. We are not only using DS, but also a surrogate to carry our baby. As for if it is a sin? No. It will not keep you from gaining access to heaven, nor will it put you there. Not one of God's commandments states "thou shall not use donor sperm or a surrogate"...however...

one of His commandments does say not to covet they neighbors house"...this means everything in it...including children. Be careful not to become jealose of those who have children, just because you do not.

God loves us all...but, its up to us to love Him back.
Also, God did not put sin or pain, hurt, or even death into our world. Adam and Eve did that. He wanted us to be without hurt, pain or death and he created us to 'hang out" with us. He wanted us to love, be happy and live forever.

Goobie...I hope this helps with your anger toward God. We all have a date to leave this world. Some sooner than later. We hurt when we lose a loved one. God never wanted us to know pain, or tears or to see a loved one die.

Goobie

thanks slady. Please do not bash me, but I am slowly getting over my anger with God and moving more into indifference. Some things about my faith are stonger then ever,I am just switching my views as to WHO I pray to. Although, some people liken Gaia to the virgin Mary, so who really knows. I personally feel like if I pray and reflect on things, then I must trust me gut as to what feels right for me and my lfe.

In responce to the whole thread in general, I do not think any god would punish people with infertility, nor do I think using DS is a sin. I think we sometimes have to work harder for those things we desire most, and AI is definitely working harder then some have to! Nothing worth having comes easy, and I see it more as a test then a punishment. Though there are days I feel it is a punishment too - normally right after AF shows! It's hard, yep, but I don't think it is a sin... you have no idea how badly I want to email m y daddy and ask what his church veiws on artificial insemination and using donor sperm are...

aghhggh

I'm sorry if I'm interpreting this wrong, but wasn't Onan's big sin the fact that he refused to donate sperm to his sister in law, so his late brother wouldn't have an heir? It seems to me like if a low-tech method of sperm donation were actually codified as a part of ancient Jewish law, it doesn't make sense for the high-tech version to be considered sinful just because it's, what, safer?

Also, it's been a while since CCD, but I seem to remember something about this woman who got pregnant without even having sex. I can't think of her name, but from what I recall her son was sort of a big deal.

ETA: I also see the Book of Ruth as affirmation that there's nothing wrong with two committed women raising a child together, so, I guess you should probably take anything I say with a huge grain of salt.

ncteacher

I found this article...it is amazingly comforting!

http://www.surrogacy.com/medres/article/christv.html

chrissysmith19

LOL...@aghhggh.....Also, it's been a while since CCD, but I seem to remember something about this woman who got pregnant without even having sex. I can't think of her name, but from what I recall her son was sort of a big deal.

Her name was MARY....and her Son was JESUS! LOL

Jais

chrissysmith19 you are too funny. Ha ha that gave me a great laugh. I guess some try to forget that little tidbit. Lol ha ha

Goobie

Just had to chime back in... I talked to my dad about it... he is a Lutheran minister, and here is what he said.

It is a highly controversial topic. There is no one right or wrong answer, but the top three are:
If one is using their own eggs and their partners sperm, then it is ok, it still follows the "one body" aspect of marriage
If one is using their eggs/sperm and a donors egg/sperm, some still sy it ok, some will consider it adultery.
If one is using donor sperm and donor egg, the church frowns upon this, mostly due to the "how many embryos are being made?" aspect, if 6 embies are made and only 2 used, and the other 4 destroyed, this could fall into line with abortion.
Some people from the Lutheran church still believe that if a couple is infertile for any reason, that is Gods Will.

When I asked him about SMBC and same sex relationships, he said "don't worry about what the church says, you know that there will be those who say go for it, and those who say it's wrong, but I don't think God leads us the wrong way"

May I add in here, my dad is a dork, but I love him. And I love that he is not only a pastor, but a real person first. He is divorced and remarried (something "the church" frowns on) he has been disowned by one of his own children for his own screw ups (but is trying to work on that, slowly), openly admits that he had sex with another woman before he married my mom, openly admits that he had sex with my mom before they married, openly admits he had sex with my step mom (ugh) before they got married. He believes in birth control, he himself got snipped after the birth of my now 8 year old brother, he thinks adoption is grand, and he never once turned his back on TWO of his daughters who were single teen moms (my sis at 18, me at 17). So yeah, what "the church" says and what God says are not always the same thing... and as I mentioned in the OT Books thread, I highly recommend the book "The Shack" for anyone, no matter religion, it really opened my eyes to how Gods Will and the churches will are not the same... don't forget that any church is made up of imperfect humans, the Bible was written by 8 people and has been translated and retranslated a gazillion times, and (I feel) one should trust their instinct and their own faith in whatever God or Goddess they worship.

sara85

I don't post often, but I do follow what is going on and I have to say this is one area that I have thought a lot about and I had to say something. This makes me feel so much better about my decision to be a SMBC and how God might feel about it. And how to explain to others that if it happens, then it is God's will. I have browsed the Bible (I've never read the whole thing) looking for some kind of answer, but I guess I didn't look good enough. Thank you for posting this ncteacher, it has been very helpful.
@Goobie - I think I like your dad. He sounds pretty awesome AND just what any religious person should be...Understanding and Un-judgmental.

sara85

That being said I must add, that anybody (regardless of their choice of religion) who decides to judge someone for using a donor needs to remember that it is Gods job to Judge us for the decisions we have made, not theirs.

ncteacher

I'm glad it helped, sara! I have really had a faith crisis through all of this, and researching all of this has put me back in touch with God....

Goobie

Hell yeah Sara! Judge Not Lest You Be Judged... it IS in the Bible somewhere, and a great way to live ones life, regardless of religious outlook.

And thanks, I like my dad pretty well too! In all honesty, he is a GREAT pastor, he kinda sucks as a dad, you know, the whole "the shoemakers kids go shoeless" thing? Yeah well, he was so busy councelling other families while we were growing up that he sort of forgot about us then... but we're working on it.... I personally have much more respect for any person who remembers that first and foremost they are human and thus falliable.

LoveShackBaby

I talked to my Pastor/employer and he had no insight to this topic so he emailed the National Branch and this was the reply that came back:

I don’t think the bible says anything about artificial insemination because when it was written, all those many eons ago, the reproductive cycle was not understood in the least. All they knew was that it had something to do with men and women; women were the ones to get pregnant; and men were the ones ordered not to waste their “seed.” Oh, and women were considered property, so they didn't matter all that much anyway. But that’s about it.



I think the ethic of love, of loving families, is far more compelling than any deuteronomic or levitical codes about masturbation or sex or adultery, etc.



We do not have a stand on fertility treatments for infertile or same gender couples or in vitro fertilization or surrogate motherhood per se, but we do affirm that children should be loved, desired and supported.