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TTC in May and Still No Donor
Sassy2u
Posts: 236
I am having a very hard time picking out a donor. I know this is a very hard choice for many women so I thought I would explain my issues and some of you wonderful ladies could pass on a little advice. I had planned on using a Chinese donor. I must explain that I am not Chinese and will be a SMBC. So I am sure there are some who wonder why I want a Chinese donor and it is a completely valid question that I am not sure if I know the answer to. Since I was a young girl, I had it in my head that I would adopt an unwanted Chinese girl when I was able to. However, I am not married and they do not allow single parents to adopt. I guess I had this image of my daughter in my mind for so long that when I decided to TTC with a donor, my first inclination was to use a Chinese donor. However, as time has gone on and I have thought/read about using a donor, I wonder if I should just use a Caucasian donor so that my child will not feel like more of an outsider for not looking like the rest of my family. I would hate to bring a baby in the world that from the beginning is missing out on having a father and would then have even more of an obstacle in life by feeling as though he/she is different from her mother and extended family. So now I am unsure about the right path to take. Any advice at all would be very greatly appreciated. TIA
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Good Luck
Progesterone therapy and baby aspirin daily
Two miscarriages in between (August 2012 - same donor as Maggie, and December 2014 with husband)
Maggie
Back to your question, go with what's in your heart. I VERY intentionally chose a donor of a different ethnicity, for many reasons. Primarily though, it was an ethnicity that I feel very close to and idealize in many respects. I fully intend to raise my daughter with exposure to that culture and country.
If it's what you want, do it.
Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, only special needs children will be eligible for single women to adopt in China. Children that are considered healthy are still only permitted to be adopted by married couples.
In case you're interested... Not sure if they still even do this kind of thing but when my parents adopted me, they asked for a child with a correctable handicap. Not even sure if that would fall in the special needs category, but it wouldn't hurt to ask! I had a dislocated hip that corrected itself right before I came home. Other things would be hair lips, blindness or deafness, club feet, etc.
http://www.rainbowkids.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=748
Some other exciting news is that DP's brother and his wife are in the process of adopting a baby girl from China. There is so much red tape, and it has been a really long process for them but it looks like it will really be happening in about 9 months. So if it does work out and we have a baby with this donor's sperm, he/she will have a cousin that is of Chinese decent also.
That would be sooo cool!!
So this next part is not meant to sound mean or judgmental. I firmly believe we end up with the children we are supposed to have. However, from what you have said you are selecting a Chinese donor based on the dream you’ve had of having a little Chinese girl and because of the roadblocks you have faced in adoption, you’ve decided this is the route to achieve that. The obvious obstacle here is you may have a boy. The bigger obstacle is the unpredictable nature of Asian genetics. My sister and I don’t look Asian at all. We have Asian features, but if you don’t know our mother is Chinese you would never see those features for what they are. My brother on the other hand doesn’t look Caucasian. And Asian features change with aging. My youngest was born with vague Asian features. As a toddler they could still be seen and were a little stronger. Now as a preteen, it’s gone. My middle child had very faint Asian features at birth, they disappeared by the time he was a toddler. As a preteen, I faintly see them in his eyes, but anyone outside the family would never notice them. My youngest was soooo Asian looking at birth the nurse thought he didn’t belong to my husband until my mother showed up to visit. At that point they understood and admitted to me they thought the baby belonged to someone else and my husband just didn’t realize it. As a toddler he has kept the Asian hair, but it has gone from black to such a light golden brown it borderlines on blond. His eyes are still very almond in shape and slanted, but not like they were at birth. Just like my sister and I, by the time they are adults no one will be able to identify my children as having any Chinese decent. Who knows what my next child will look like, but my husband and I in no way expect her to look like a little Chinese girl, however she does have the genetic cards stacked that direction. (My one cousin, who has a Caucasian father and my Chinese aunt is her mother, is married to a Chinese man. They were pretty shocked when their little girl was born with very Chinese features but blond curls and blue eyes. She’s stunning, but nobody ever saw that one coming.) My point here is, it sound as if you are selecting a donor based on an ideal you have of what your child will look like, and you need to be aware up front that Asian genetics are a wild card. They are not genetics that work like other ethnic groups genetics and are not guaranteed dominate over your Caucasian genetics or any other genetics for that matter. So you said you narrowed it down to these two donors because you’ve envisioned yourself so long with a little Chinese girl, but there is a very good chance that even using a Chinese donor your child won’t look all that Asian at all, but only end up with isolated Asian features. Again I’m not trying to be mean and I’m not being judgmental, I just think you should be aware of that.
I think that everyone has to start somewhere when they're choosing a donor. If you're starting with an Asian donor because it feels right to you, okay, great!
I agree you do need to start somewhere. However you are greatly limiting your choices when you decide on an Asian donor and even more when you limit it to a specific nationality beyond that. And that’s not just with NW that is in general. We chose our donor based on one factor that would make my very traditional Chinese mother very happy. I hate to see someone select an Asian donor simply thinking they will end up with an Asian looking child only to find out in the end the genetics are not as dominant as they expected them to be.
Growing up bi-racial and half Chinese, I can say that in itself is challenging no matter how Asian they look. Even my kids who are only a quarter Asian get teased over it. This child will most likely look more Asian and get teased more over it. Things are better than when I was a kid, but we still do not live in a color blind world. So selecting an Asian donor is a big deal beyond simply not looking like mom. I'm absolutely a fan of Asian babies, especially Chinese babies, but being half-Asian and being the biological child of a Caucasian parent is much different than being Asian and adopted is much different than being adopted by a Caucasian or any other non-Asian family. From persoanl experience, I don't feel it is a path to be entered lightly.
You shouldn’t expect strong Chinese genetics. More of my half Chinese relatives have only general Asian features. Most of my other half Asian friends more or less have general Asian features versus looking Asian. My friends of Pilipino and Korean decent have the strongest features. Chinese and Japanese features tend to become most diluted. Actually in Anthropology we have an area of study that involves human evolution and race evolution. There is this circular chart that shows the progression of human physical features and the very bottom facial features are those of the typical Han Chinese face. In anthropology when studying the evolution of ethnic backgrounds out of Africa where humans originated, Asian genetic features are considered a bridge between the other genetic features seen in other ethnic backgrounds. (National Geographic published some excellent material a few years back that illustrates this.) My older children get teased because they are Chinese not because they look Chinese. It doesn’t bother them much because they have grown up in a family immersed in Chinese culture and it is a very proud culture. You miss understood, I did not say you should be more worried about your child being picked on more because they would look more Chinese. I was referring to the baby I am due to deliver in the next few weeks. She will have an experience that is different from my older children. If she does take more Asian traits being ¾ Chinese, she will have a different experience than I had. (My sister and I hated our brother because he looked Chinese and was 100% accepted by the Chinese families we dealt with all the time.)
I grew up in areas with large Asian populations, California to be precise. My father moved my mother from China and chose the location to raise a family based on giving her a large Chinese community she could relate to and the geographical location to routinely fly home. Prejudice exists against Asians just like other minority ethnic group, we just don’t complain about it. And often the people making racially insensitive statements to or about Asians don’t even realize they are doing it. And we still usually do not complain. Asian cultures are big on polite social interactions, even when it is not deserved; we have a whole religion founded on the idea. I have currently live around a huge Korean community, so I still have locally have a lot of Asians and Asian culture in the area. We have smaller Japanese and Chinese communities as well. I have lots of friends who are half Asian. Why? We all have had a similar experience growing up, regardless of our Asian nationally. We were never white enough to be Caucasian and never Asian enough to belong to our respective nationalities’ communities. And every one of us hated the adopted Asian kids from China, Vietnam and South Korea when we were kids. Why? Because for some reason the Caucasian adults and children we dealt with on a day to day basis considered those kids to be more Caucasian than we were because they had been adopted by Caucasian parents. I respect the fact you think you know what it’s like to grow up being a part Asian kid and your child wouldn’t have issues because you live in an area with a large Asian population and you probably have Asian friends, but I have lived it. My friends have lived it. Your initial question revolved around if using an Asian donor created an obstacle in life for your child. The answer is yes. I wish I could say no, but it would be a lie.
Your post was asking people if they thought you would be creating a challenge for a bi-racial child by having a bi-racial child. You got one better than the opinions of a bunch of people who have no idea what it’s like to walk in the shoes of a bi-racial Asian child, you got the insight of somebody who was a bi-racial Asian child and a Chinese one at that. The problem now is that you never wanted opinions or advice, you wanted people to tell you it was OK and to go for it when you already know that picking a race for a child like you pick the color of paint for a new car isn’t right.
is darker than his brothers but he does not look like he has any African in him. Genetics are a crap shoot--you just get the baby you are meant to have. Good luck!!
To Mel-N-Be: I think it is strange that you specifically registered on this forum to make your one and only post concerning your outrage over my wanting a bi-racial child. Why would you or anyone else in the world be "pissed off and offended" if a wanted a half black baby. My concern when writing this post was not what small minded racist people in this world would think of my decision, but what my child would think.
And FYI, little girls in China are "unwanted." I do not know which word you would have preferred for me to use, but there is no sugar coating that they are unwanted and under extreme circumstances.
You wrote: "The problem now is that you never wanted opinions or advice, you wanted people to tell you it was OK and to go for it when you already know that picking a race for a child like you pick the color of paint for a new car isn’t right."
You do not know anything about me Mel-N-Be so keep your assuming to yourself please. I posted the question in order to receive advice. If I did not care about the future of the child and just wanted a particular "color of paint for a new car" I would never have wasted my time or that of the women on this forum where most of us share with and care about the each other. I personally felt as though Lavina's answers were a little harsh, and that is my prerogative. Maybe they were not, but another forum reader admitted thought so as well. So I must not be that sensitive. But in the end, I still appreciate and value her opinions.
The last Monday night of every month I have a dinner with 15 of my closest friends. We are all intelligent, well educated and immensely successful in our respective fields. It is a 6 hour debate of current affairs in our lives and around the globe, where we can say anything and not worry about making somebody cry. I printed this thread and took it with me last night with the simple question of “Am I being hormonal?” and what were the opinions on the topic. After the ladies who did not know I was carrying a baby conceived by AI with donor sperm recovered from their shock and asked the standard 20 questions the consensus was that my position was valid and I wasn‘t being “hormonal“. So I don’t feel bad for what I said or that Sassy2u doesn’t like what I have to say.
I’m not surprised by the other board member who agrees I’m insensitive. My best friend Lynn has lurked here as long as I have been had a theory about someone’s comment here that was very interesting. She’s a psychologist and does research at a the University we both teach at, so she loves a good theory. They are probably the person who commented. Lynn is all excited because it would support her theory and she insisted I come back here and read what else was posted. I’m not insensitive, I’m pragmatic, by all definitions of the word. When I started college as a 16 year old kid, surrounded by arguably some of the most brilliant minds in the country, I learned quickly you speak your mind with unwavering confidence if you expect anyone to listen to you and take you seriously. I was raised by a mother who was born in China and has a very traditional value system. To Westerners that often is misconceived as being cold culture, in reality it is just very practical on all levels. Ironically, even my master thesis for my philosophy degree was on an American philosophy movement that support this very idea. So it doesn’t matter to me if Sassy2u or the other member she privately discussed me with thinks I’m insensitive. For whatever your reasons or motivations were in coming to my defense, it is appreciated. Few people in this world have the courage to speak their mind when they know others will not like what they have to say.
Sassy2u:
I don’t know if you ever wanted an honest answer at all and it doesn‘t really matter to me, but at this point I do think you want to hear one. I’m sorry I wasn’t able to paint the perfect picture for you. I had to give up an actual international adoption a few years ago of a 3 year old special needs boy, so I understand how hard it is to have a dream and a vision of your future in your mind and to give that up.
I still have family in China and return regularly. We just went for 6 weeks in the fall at the beginning of my pregnancy to visit family. You need to educate yourself on why and how children in other countries end up in orphanages. It is not typically because they are not wanted or not loved. There are complex economic, social and political reasons as to why parent give up their children. Only after you give birth to your own child will you truly understand the horrible decision those parents had to make when they left their child behind. In China children are often given up due to the one child policy and the lack of elder care. There are no nursing homes, your son will be the only one to care for you when you are no longer able to work. When my mother and her sisters came to the United States, my uncle stayed because it was his responsibility to care for my grandparents. Also children born in excess of the one child policy are often given up. If the mother avoids forced abortion, forced sterilization and infanticide of her infant after birth, she is still burdened with not being able to get legal papers for that child. Without legal papers the child can never go to school, can never get benefits, has difficulty freely traveling and may never be able to legitimately hold a job. Many of those children are given up in hopes they will be adopted by Westerners. Many parents cannot care for a child with a medical needs. In China health care is expensive and corrupt; there is not an comprehensive, effective social medicine system like the government’s propaganda claims exists. In rural areas parents often cannot feed their children and give them up to try to save them from starving to death. Many countries that have active international adoption programs are filled will children who ended up in an orphanage for the same types of horrible complex reasons those of us in the United States are blessed to never have to face. The idea that the children sitting in orphanages around the world are unwanted and unloved by their parents is an arrogant Western philosophy fueled by ignorance. Instead of judging those parents with contempt we should be thankful we never have to make those kinds of decisions and be outraged that others in the world do.
And please do not assume that I am unschooled on the socio-political and historical issues plaguing China which leads to an abundance of little girls (thousands a year) to be murdered or orphaned. However, at the end of the day, no matter how you sugar coat it, they are UNWANTED by China. Is that a terrible travesty against humanity? YES. But it is the truth. I think you should look into history a little further back, because infanticide of little girls is as old as time and was widespread in much of the world. In China, this practice was still in use even before the one child rule came into effect. 90% of children in Chinese orphanages are girls as of 2010. This stems from much more than economic issues, this is the degradation of feminine equality. If girls were not perceived as so much less than boys in China and some other cultures, there would not be such a dichotomy in the numbers of children in Chinese orphanages.
At the end of your post you infer that I have contempt for parents in China who have to make these decisions and I say to you that is some mighty strong inferring considering I never said or even intimated anything of the sort. And to be honest, I really do not know how we got to this point. In your first post you wanted to let me know that my baby will most likely not look Asian, in your second post you insisted that my Asian baby will be picked on, and the third was to explain that all your besties agree with you and I need to not call babies unwanted. I would like to just end this here because you have taken a polite and fun thread and turned it ugly. Not because your opinion was different from others, but because of your delivery. I have been very gracious to you and thanked you immensely, but I no longer feel as though I need your input. I will not be checking into this post anymore because I just feel that it has gone in a very poor direction that I never meant it to. This forum is very important to me and is truly a bright spot in my day. If you wish to respond in order to get the last word on my post, please feel free as I am sure your super ego will require.
I truly asked the questions I did because I cared about the answers. I asked because I cared about how the child would feel, not how the world would perceive him or her. I thank all the posters who participated as you were all very helpful. See you in the more positive section of the forum.