DHS child placed with us with our intent to adopt---issues

ksmommy

Hello,

I have not been on this board for a LONG time.....I used to get a lot of support and help when my dh and I were ttc our dd and ds. My daughter is now 9 and my son is 4. I have a parenting question and here is a little background. We are in the process of adopting a 5 y.o dd. She is the niece of my dd's horseback riding instructor and we have known her for a couple of years. We knew that her aunt wasn't willing to adopt and other family members (bio mom bio dad, grandparents, aunts, uncles) were willing but unable due to previous drug/misc law convictions. This little girl was taken into protective custody by DHS at age 2 and lived with her aunt until about a month ago at age 5. Her life with her aunt was stable and loving but before that her home life was traumatic. We took placement thru a foster to adopt program at that time. She spent a lot of time with us before that and got to know us and our extended family but the official placement was a little over a month ago.

We (my husband and I) are struggling a bit. She is a great little girl in a lot of ways but has some big issues......one of them being lying. I understand logically why she has always needed to lie in order to survive the situation she was in but it is tough. She lies about everything big and small. Sometimes I understand the lie is to avoid a situation where she might get in trouble (I didn't rip the page in that book...I know I am looking at the book and you just heard a ripping sound but I didn't rip it.....she would not be in trouble for ripping the book by accident but does have a consequence for lying.) Other times I don't understand the reasoning behind the lie. I am unsure how to address the lying issue.....time outs don't seem to work, discussion doesn't seem to work....I am not sure she is even aware she is lying until pointed out to her. She seems to lie naturally and without even thinking about it. I mentioned this to her aunt and her aunt told me that this little girl's dad is a pathological liar.

She also has hurt our chihuahua when alone with her 3 separate times. They are now not allowed to be alone together....because she wouldn't tell me what happened. The counselor she saw once told me it is possible she doesn't know how to treat smaller animals so we have been working on gentleness with all creatures big and small.

She has issues relating with our two kids in some ways. (sharing, respecting others property)

Has anyone else adopted a child through DHS and experienced issues? If so, how were they handled? I know this is a big transition for her and I am trying to be patient. It is hard though when things affect my other kids. Just this morning she stole a flower that my little boy had picked. She gave it to me and told me she picked it for me. My little boy then told me he had picked a flower too but didn't know where it was. My preadoptive daughter told him it dropped when he was running. My other daughter said she knew where the flower was and that she had seen it on the floor and they went to get it off of the living room floor.....of course it wasn't there because it had been given to me by my other daughter. This is an example of the type of lie she tells. It is small but it affects my other kids. This type of lie is told anywhere from 10-20 times a day.

Thanks for any input/information.

K&H

What kind of therapeutic support does she have? How about you? Any chance you live in MA? We have an excellent program here that works on a wraparound idea. A team comes to the house to work with the whole family, and connects everyone with individual supports. One of the main reasons for the program is to assist families with the transition from foster care into a more permanent situation. I would very strongly suggest bringing in professional support. It doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong, it just means that what you are doing is very hard! You're working very hard to make this a great thing, but it's really difficult and you deserve support!!!
I would either look online or call your insurance and ask what behavioral health services are covered. Does she have state health care thru DHS? Sometimes that covers more things (sometimes not).
My guess would be that she feels really insecure in your home through absolutely no fault of yours. It's going to take her time to adjust and trust you, it doesn't make sense to her that someone could actually want her, so she has to prove to her that you want her by being perfect (not ripping books, bringing you flowers etc).. But at the same time she's probably really mad at her aunt for giving her away, and probably confused about why her bio parents don't want her.
See if there's an adoption support group near you, I'm sure that would be extremely helpful also.

ksmommy

Thank you for your answer. I know that she must have trust issues....I can't imagine a way that she wouldn't. We have known her for almost two years and she has been coming over during the day (a couple times a week) for a good part of that time with absolutely no problems. I was naive to think that when she came to live with us it would be relatively smooth sailing. It has been a month and a half and the issues started right away (2 days after she came to live with us we were shocked at a lie that she told...a big and very hurtful one.) An adoption support group may be a great answer and I will talk to our case worker about behavioral support for our family. I really want this transition to go as smoothly as possible for her with as little negative impact on our two other kids as possible. LOL.....everyone told us that this would be HARD. But we knew her so well and she had been to our house so often I really didn't expect the level of bumpiness we are experiencing. It is hard to talk to people about it outside of my husband as I don't want to shed a negative light on her that could last.....but I am on uncharted waters and really don't know how to proceed.

Zen

I don't have answers but have spent the last 20 months going through something similar with the [now] 12 year old I am wanting to adopt. His standard operating procedure was to say whatever would get him off the radar, usually lies. Did you do your homework? Change your underwear? Brush your teeth? Take a bath? It didn't matter what the question was, the answer was likely to be a lie. What helped (notice I don't say "worked") was phrasing things in the form of a command so no answer (insert: lie) was needed. Instead of asking if he had homework, I'd say "show me your 2nd period math homework." It's still a work in progress.

My 15 year old is a little less prone to lying but with her I laugh when she tries. She is just so bad at it. I don't mean that she's bad for lying. She's bad at lying! The girl can tell me she completed work online knowing I'm signed into the account looking at a blank screen. Or swear she's just filled the pet's water bowl while it sits empty in my hand. *sigh*

When the kids came to me, they brought with them a small chihuahua mix. I found my [soon-to-be] son would be nice to the dog in public but mean and abusive in private. There was no mistaking he was acting toward the dog the way he had been treated himself. The result was a dog that was loving toward the boy but snapped at everyone else. I rolled with it for a few months but then realized I needed to rehome the dog.

I can tell you that things do get better. But ... if the abuse and/or uncertainty in her life was years long, the time needed for healing and behavior modification will be just as long or more.

merryshannon

I was a chronic liar as a child - and I was never abused or abandoned, I just thought I was smarter than everyone else and could get away with it. :P The thing that made the biggest impression for me was that my parents decided that if I admitted to a lie before they found out about it, I would not be disciplined for the thing I'd lied about. But, if they found out I had lied about it, then I would get twice as many consequences as I would have otherwise.

Now I figured out how to work this pretty quickly - I would do something naughty, lie about it, wait until it seemed my parents were about to discover the lie and then quickly admit to it first, so that I would have no punishment. But, it did get me to carefully consider whether I wanted to take the gamble. If they caught me lying on the spot, my time-out would be twice as long, or I'd get extra swats (my parents spanked) or I'd lose twice as many toy privileges or have to do twice as many chores, or whatever.

The personal consequences of my actions were really the only thing, as a kid, that I cared about. If it seemed like the results of a lie would be in my favor (someone's opinion of me wouldn't suffer, I wouldn't get punished, etc.) then I would lie - UNLESS the potential results of getting caught made it not worth it. There were even times when I did something naughty, and immediately told the truth - and because the naughtiness was so minor, my parents actually REWARDED me for being honest. Once I figured out I might even get rewarded instead of punished when I was honest, I chose to tell the truth more often.

It sounds to me like maybe your adoptive kiddo has some of the same kid logic - she wants you to think well of her, so she takes credit for things she didn't do and denies responsibility for things she did. It seems so logical that it actually doesn't occur to her that it's wrong. If she can get people to believe her, she has control over the world around her - no matter what might actually have happened, she can make the truth whatever she SAYS it is. I would imagine that for a kiddo who's come from a world of uncertainty, distrust and abandonment, that sense of control is really important. And you want to be able to correct the behavior without adding to her insecurity, which is a tough thing to balance.

I would try to help her understand that lying is about choices, and choices are something she can control. She can choose to lie, which means she's also choosing to face the consequences when she gets caught. Or she can choose to be truthful, which means she accepts the consequences of her actions - but she also earns leniency for honesty. Make it worth her while to tell the truth, and she'll do it more often. Eventually you can also help her to understand WHY lying is wrong, and WHY hurting others with her lies is wrong, but that will come later, after she understands that she doesn't have to lie in order to survive (and in fact it's more to her advantage to be honest.)

It might not hurt to find some kids' books and movies that have positive messages about honesty, and spending some cuddle time reading with her and talking about what happened in the stories afterward. The advantage is that you're talking about OTHER people's choices, not hers, so it's easier for her to absorb without feeling threatened. If you make it clear that you really, really admire people who are honest (connect honesty with bravery - all kids want to be thought of as brave!) she will probably start doing it more often just because she wants your approval.

Wishing you lots of luck as you guys work on this together. If it's any consolation - I turned out okay in the end. ^~

merryshannon

Oh, and one more thing - let her see your other children get rewarded when they are honest, and see them receive consequences/scolding for lies. Kids learn as much by watching other people's behavior as they do from their own.

Kari

I can't speak from the standpoint of a parent working with kids in the foster system, but I've taught several kids in the classroom who were in foster care or adopted out of foster care. The kids who were adopted often had a long transition period of testing waters to see/challenge what they could get away with. They do calm down, but it takes a long time. Last year I started teaching two girls who were recently adopted, and this year is definitely a better year for them than last year. They still have some social quirks, for sure, but the frequency is way down. What I notice about all of them is that their social and emotional maturity are often a few years behind. So expect a 5yo to think she can get away with things that a 3 or 4yo might try to get away with.

ETA: Also, she probably wants to know for certain that you'll be her forever parents. One way to do this is to be as bad as she can possibly be and see if you'll turn your back on her like others she's trusted have. Repeatedly reassure her that this will not happen.

ksmommy

Thank you all so much for your input. I really appreciate hearing your experiences. I have a call in to our caseworker re: support. I really want this to work and go as smoothly as possible. I purchased The Connected Child by Karyn Purvis. I am looking forward to reading it. Thank you radmamadread. Thank you also for your email address. I may take you up on that as things progress.....

ksmommy

Things have escalated in the last 20 days. My dh walked in on our foster daughter and ds. Ds was naked from the waist down and foster daughter was touching him inappropriately. My dh says he is done....that between the animal abuse and now the touching of our son that he feels unable to reach out to such a troubled girl. I see his point but also think that maybe with the right therapy we may be able to still help her. I want to help her and include her in our family....just not at the expense of our two kids. Any help would be appreciated!

Kari

I agree with your husband that this may not be the right setting for her. If she abuses animals and members of your family, she should be placed in a home with no pets or other children until she gets the treatment and therapies she needs. Your son could have lasting negative issues from this incident and any possible future ones. Put your children first and protect them, or you may have long-term issues to deal with with your kids.

mel

Kari wrote:

I agree with your husband that this may not be the right setting for her. If she abuses animals and members of your family, she should be placed in a home with no pets or other children until she gets the treatment and therapies she needs. Your son could have lasting negative issues from this incident and any possible future ones. Put your children first and protect them, or you may have long-term issues to deal with with your kids.

I could not agree more with Kari. Frankly, I am surprised she is still in your home. This is not a situation that is going to improve quickly, if ever, and your son has been abused. Don't allow it to happen again.

ksmommy

We called DHS the morning after this last event happened. They reassured us as to how common this was and told me how devastating the removal of our foster daughter from our home would be to not only our foster daughter but our other two kids as well.....our case worker told me that we would be sending the message that if you do something bad enough you will not be loveable and will be removed from our home.....the thought of our kids or are foster daughter feeling this way absolutely devastated me. That conversation was 4 days ago and we have since talked to people far more experienced than we are in the field of child abuse and they explained that our foster daughter was now in a safe and loving environment and was probably feeling safe enough to act out what had happened to her in the past. They also told us that our primary responsibility was to our own two kids. My husband and I know this but I really didn't want to hurt this little girl further by having her removed from our home. Our kids have been intensely supervised since then and we are having a conversation with our case worker on Tuesday...one in which we explain that we are ill equipped to help a girl as troubled as this one and we are worried about our kids. The sad thing is that this little girl may very well fall through the cracks as a result of her leaving our home and she may not get the evaluation/therapy that she needs. I FULLY understand that this is necessary as a protection to our own kids but that doesn't make her leaving any less sad to me. I shudder to think what kind of home she may end up in (so many foster family disasters out there)...I pray that she finds a loving couple who are able to give her the help she needs.

ninefirefly

I'm not sure that's true about it being better for everyone to not have her leave the home immediately. It's better for the social service office certainly. But how do they know it's not teaching your children that their safety and wellbeing comes second to the foster child's? If an adult did the same thing you would not allow them in the home and no one would argue that it would teach children that they would not be accepted back if they did something terrible. I find that line of reasoning ridiculous. I'm sorry this situation occurred but it seems like removing her from the home asap would be the correct course of action.

ksmommy

I feel I should clarify a few things. We have known our foster/adoptive placement dd for about two years. Her aunt (her former foster placement) and our family are friends. Our dd and ds love this little girl as do we. The disturbing issues that have come up have only happened in the last 2 1/2 months.....probably because our foster dd is feeling safe and loved enough that she feels comfortable acting out what has happened to her in the past. We would not be worried about recent disturbing issues if we did not have kids. Thank you for your input...I realize this is a confusing and heartbreaking issue. I appreciate everyone's input.