Skip to content
Welcome to our new forum! All existing NW Cryobank forum users will need to reset their passwords. Click forgot password and enter your email address to receive the link. Email us at info@nwcryobank.com with any questions.
NW Cryobank community boards and sibling connect groups will no longer be available after December 20th, 2023.
Options

Reading before kindergarten

fischfisch Posts: 570 ✭✭
edited November -1 in Parenting and Life
Jack doesn't start kinder until fall 2013. I'm curious how many kids are able to read by the tIme they start kinder. A few kids can already read in his prek class, but one was held back last year and the other is a girl who is going to kinder in the fall. Jack desperately wants to be able to read, and does lots of pretending, but I can tell that it hasn't clicked yet that letters=words. As a preschool director, I was always of the philosophy that kids will learn when they are ready, that social skills are more important, that pushing or steering toward academics can backfire. That was before I had kids of my own. Now I get the anxiety that exists around kindergarten readiness.
I want to help him learn without turning him off. He is obsessive about his books, loves them, and memorizes them, so I know he will eventually get there....maybe I will talk to his teachers again.
age.png

age.png
«1

Comments

  • Options
    annerbonesannerbones Posts: 1,812
    edited November -1
    Most kids dont learn to read until they are in Kindergarten. Pretending to read is a a great first step and really show that her gets the concept that the pictures tell the story - soon he will start tying that to the words - point out words that go with the picture - cat (this was always the first word my kinders got), dog, pig, simple words.

    He is on a good path - his own path.
    raF7m7.png
    Progesterone therapy and baby aspirin daily

    Two miscarriages in between (August 2012 - same donor as Maggie, and December 2014 with husband)
    Maggie
    PNa0m7.png
  • Options
    pbpb Posts: 83
    edited November -1
    Beckham was speech delayed but read before his second birthday. He won't start kindergarten until September 2014 (we are holding him back). Paige read before kindergarten as well but then she had trouble reading in first and second grade (their birthdays are 4 days apart and we wish we kept her back). Right now Beckham can read anything you put in front of him (3) and Paige is doing great in college. All kids learn at their own pace!!!
  • Options
    ZenZen Posts: 2,942
    edited November -1
    I was reading at 2. At 3-1/2 Shiloh knews her alphabet and all the individual sounds. She's working on combination-letter sounds and starting to sound out words. She loves spelling and words on flash cards. If I worked with her daily I'm sure she'd be reading by her 4th birthday. But since it's not an actual goal, and more an "acquire as we go" type of skill, it could be another 6 months. Shiloh misses the cut off for kindergarten by 3 weeks so she'll be just shy of 6 years old when she starts. She'll definitely have reading, writing, and basic addition by then.
    AfUDuhU.jpgAfUDm4.png
  • Options
    K&HK&H Posts: 3,368 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I struggle with this one as well. E doesn't know very many letters, but the ones she knows she knows the sounds that go with them. She also can read ooo sounds and points them out anywhere she sees two circles together.
    We're going to do Waldorf education and they don't even start formal reading education until seven. Before that it's about being familiar with letters through their sounds, which naturally fits what she's already doing. She'll be 5+ 2 weeks when kinder starts and we're toying with holding her back but will wait to see who she is then before we decide.
    I definitely agree that play, imagination, problem solving, creativity, and social and emotional skills are much more important.
    GOzIm4.png
    hAO7m4.png
    CmQMm4.png
  • Options
    babymakes3babymakes3 Posts: 433 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have taught kinder and first for 11 years. You are right in you're
    Assessment that social skills are more important. In California by the end of kinder a child is reading small books with sentences like " Here is sad cat". By the end of first they are reading small chapter books. it is a huge jump but most can get there. My son is 7. Played with books from about 2. Memorized everything. Which is what you would expect. He started reading above grade level mid year kinder. It just clicked for him and wanted to learn. Before,that he was all boy and only cared about recess.
    connonandray.jpg
  • Options
    cAtWmN84cAtWmN84 Posts: 462
    edited July 2012
    so i'm gonna brag on my girl a bit. :) she recognized her first written word "clap" at 11 months right after starting the your baby can read program.read her 1st book from cover to cover at age 3 and slowly getting better.now she is on to early reader books and with very little help is reading through those at 4.she will start pre-k in the fall.i credit the your baby can read because they get the kids to focus on the words first and then the picture and i also have read to her tons and pointed out the words to her even as a baby.i also take her to storytime and she has been going since before she was a year old :)
    yqOs9SZ.jpgyqOsm5.png
    Qkvimpd.jpgQkvim4.png
    dxnZweE.jpgdxnZm5.png
  • Options
    becca93becca93 Posts: 20
    edited November -1
    Don't worry about it. Schools push reading earlier and earlier these days, but the research never has changed: most brains are not capable of truly reading until the age of 7. Second grade is a natural clicking point for many kids, who feel frustrated and pressured and "dumb" for not reading chapter books by age 3.

    Kindergarten teachers are dealing with children who don't know their letters or colors (or how to sit quietly at a table with others). They have to start with the basics. Heck, in my state, even though basic reading is all over the educational standards, the test to skip grades K through 2 must be given orally because the kids can't be expected to read the questions!
  • Options
    Shaeley MaeShaeley Mae Posts: 1,731
    edited November -1
    I agree with the last few replies.
    Lilianna knows her ABC's, colors, numbers, etc, inside out. She also loves to "read" (looking at the pictures and telling a story based on what she thinks it should be). But all of her progress to date has simply been the result of purposeful play, and mimicking what she sees me and her teachers do.
    I have no intentions of teaching my child to read. That what school is for (not that I'm lazy, but simply that I want her to learn when her classmates are learning). For now I plan to enforce the joy she finds in her current "reading" level, and I plan to enforce the lessons/skills that she is taught in school.
    Sometimes I think that encouraging a child to be more advanced than their classmates creates emotional termoil. It's not easy to be labeled the "teacher's pet", "smarty pants", and/or to have to constantly live up to high expectations that were set at a young age. I also think that been too advanced leads to boredom in the classroom, and thus behavioral problems.
    IMG_0408-rs.jpgIMG_7844-rs.jpg
  • Options
    cAtWmN84cAtWmN84 Posts: 462
    edited November -1
    jdiana21 wrote:
    My kids love books and we read to them every night. I am a firm believer in letting the child choose their own path before formal education and allow them to develop their social skills. If one of my children are interested in learning a particular thing, I teach them. Otherwise I let them take their own path. .

    this is what we do as well but sometimes i work in a few things like handwriting.adri's lastest interest is natural disaters.tornadoes,volcanoes,meterors,icebergs,earth quakes and tsunamis.lol

    I also think that been too advanced leads to boredom in the classroom, and thus behavioral problems.

    i'am worried about this for adri.i hope with it being such a good school they can keep her interested and challenged
    yqOs9SZ.jpgyqOsm5.png
    Qkvimpd.jpgQkvim4.png
    dxnZweE.jpgdxnZm5.png
  • Options
    melmel Posts: 793
    edited November -1
    I agree with this but I have a kid who asks me to teach her things and I am definitely not going to say no. I was bored in school alot but never had a behavioral issue so I am hoping she follows suit and I hope I can work with her school/teachers to challenge her as my parents did for me.

    Yes, but she is 4. I started reading at 4. I think it's normal for some kids. That is totally different than pushing sight words and claiming your child can read at 1 or 2 years old.
    Jjr6m5.png
  • Options
    pbpb Posts: 83
    edited November -1
    Every kid learns at their own pace. I never pushed my kid to read. We had no idea he could-he was speech delayed-he could barely talk. I much rather have my kid advanced in school than average or behind. Social skills are wicked important and IMO so is athletic ability. Both of my kids are very well rounded and to me that is very important. I will never leave education purely up to the school, they run their own agenda. High test scores, Fed Funding etc..to me that leaves little time for learning. I will not push my kids but I will answer their questions and help to keep them curious. Beckham was NEVER taught to read-he just can. We don't work on letters-he just knows them. We don't work on letter sounds because I don't believe in phonic reading. I raised Paige the same way and she is very well rounded, an A student and wicked athletic plus very popular. So I will not change anything with Beckham-I just hope he doesn't feel as entitled.
  • Options
    pbpb Posts: 83
    edited November -1
    *phonetic. Sorry autocorrect
  • Options
    ShannyShanny Posts: 2,456
    edited November -1
    He sounds like my niece around the same age. My sister did encourage her and work with her to a degree over the next year and right now she can read some very (VERY) basic first reader books. She starts kinder next month. She never pushed it, but had the materials and took the time before bed on the evenings my niece was interested and patient enough to want to try. It wasn't a nightly or even weekly things by any means. But just like you teach a one year old animal sounds by going over and over them at some point you respond to a kids desire to learn the next thing. There are huge differences in everyone's responses here but I don't know why there isn't just a happy medium. Respond to his curiosity in an appropriate way without pushing him and go from there.
    image_zps64579b54.png
  • Options
    ZenZen Posts: 2,942
    edited November -1
    mel wrote:
    That is totally different than pushing sight words and claiming your child can read at 1 or 2 years old.

    Yep. That's my memory of my own childhood. My mom or dad having me read stuff out of the TV guide to their friends to show them what I could do. There is definitely a difference between reading words and reading comprehension. Shiloh is safe though. I don't get the TV guide!

    ETA: I do beam with pride when she can recite the Pledge of Allegiance :cool: But again, while she has all the words, there is no comprehension of the meaning behind them.
    AfUDuhU.jpgAfUDm4.png
  • Options
    babymakes3babymakes3 Posts: 433 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    In all my years teaching I have never had a high child with behavior problems or show signs of boredom. the high kids can stay focused, want to please and try to do the right thing. The behavior problems stem from 2 things ( family issues/divorce,death,illness or their parenting style clashing with mine) or ( when the work is too hard kids may tune out or act up) reading is like learning to ride a bike or walk. They will Learn at their own pace no matter what the state standards dictacte. basically kinder is all about reading CVC words and a couple,dozen sight words. First grade they are reading long vowels, prefixes, suffixes, word endings and trying to do it fluently. Second grade is a year do review and they will learn to comprehend better than in first. and for those that didn't get it in first this will be their year. also second grade is the year to test for learning disabilities. It is pretty rare to test in first grade unless it is an extreme case.
    At any rate if you are practicing at home just make it fun.
    connonandray.jpg
  • Options
    melmel Posts: 793
    edited November -1
    I don't leave everything up to school, and we follow our kids' interests, also. My point was that a one-year-old who is not reading using letter sounds is not really reading, but recognizing sight words. It's the same as recognizing pictures. I have never seen a one year old who can actually read.
    Jjr6m5.png
  • Options
    pbpb Posts: 83
    edited November -1
    Well tell my kids that they must know letter sounds to know how to read. Paige must be a Dean's list illiterate. I don't know anyone who actually "sounds out words" anymore. I certainly don't know any elementary teachers who even teach phonics (in CT) anymore (that was a 70's-80's thing) and please tell my 3 year old that he is not comprehending what he is reading. Actually write it to him-he will laugh at you. Maybe all kids cannot read at 2 or 3 and maybe some kids need to "sound out words" but not all kids fit into one catagory. Just because you have never seen it,Mel, doesn't mean it doesn't happen!
  • Options
    melmel Posts: 793
    edited July 2012
    And just posting something on the internet about your kids doesn't mean it has actually happened, either. You've certainly taught us that! I believe it at 3. I don't at 1. Everyone eventually uses phonics. Otherwise, how would anyone ever read a word they haven't seen before?
    Jjr6m5.png
  • Options
    cAtWmN84cAtWmN84 Posts: 462
    edited November -1
    adri is just now learning how to prounouce some words at 4.(very little)this is because the words she does recognize she knows what they sound like and is applying that to similiar looking words.right now she is still reading after memorizing what words look like.the same as she did at 1.its still reading in my opinion.don't we all read from memory of what words look like?it is possible for kids to get it without learning phonics.this is the basis for the your baby can read program.kids that learn later on in school are taught using phonics.
    yqOs9SZ.jpgyqOsm5.png
    Qkvimpd.jpgQkvim4.png
    dxnZweE.jpgdxnZm5.png
  • Options
    melmel Posts: 793
    edited July 2012
    cAtWmN84 wrote:
    this is because the words she does recognize she knows what they sound like and is applying that to similiar looking words

    She is using phonics - "correlating sounds with letters or groups of letters" according to the dictionary. She has learned the sounds the letters make from the sight words she knows, and applies those to other words. Thanks for giving an illustration of my point!

    I get that education has shifted from explicitly teaching phonics before reading, and how that is a good thing. My point was that we all eventually use phonics instead of rote memorization of word shapes. This is how we read words we've never seen or learned before, as Adri is doing now.
    Jjr6m5.png
  • Options
    cAtWmN84cAtWmN84 Posts: 462
    edited November -1
    mel wrote:
    She is using phonics - "correlating sounds with letters or groups of letters" according to the dictionary. She has learned the sounds the letters make from the sight words she knows, and applies those to other words.


    oh good!1 letter can make more than 1 kind of sound and so the english languange can be quite a challenge to get down.so i've been trying to teach each letter's sound but its going really really slow!much slower than i thought it would take.she learnes words by memorizing so much faster.
    yqOs9SZ.jpgyqOsm5.png
    Qkvimpd.jpgQkvim4.png
    dxnZweE.jpgdxnZm5.png
  • Options
    melmel Posts: 793
    edited November -1
    cAtWmN84 wrote:
    oh good!1 letter can make more than 1 kind of sound and so the english languange can be quite a challenge to get down.so i've been trying to teach each letter's sound but its going really really slow!

    From what I understand about it, that is one reason for the shift from learning phonics first (without context) into learning some sight words and words from pictures, and going from there. But whether it's taught first or as part of a broader language learning method, phonics is always involved at some point. It's hard to remember all the rules and tricks without any context, but if she recognizes air and fail, it's easier to understand how the -ai- combo can sound different, and makes it easier to learn hair and hail. For some kids, it's easier to know from the beginning that they can sound different.

    Thank you for your post, as it helped me realized the "my child has been reading since 1 year old" is all about semantics. I define being able to read as being able to decode a series of words and letters one has not seen before. Sure, word recognition is part of reading, but I wouldn't say that someone (of any age) who can recognize a handful of words is able to read. Since sight words are part of reading in the broader definition, I see now why some parents are saying their child can read, though they could not 'read' words they haven't already been taught.
    Jjr6m5.png
  • Options
    KariKari Posts: 1,765
    edited November -1
    I had a sitter every day when I was four and five years old who taught me how to do word searches, and I started memorizing words that way. When I got to first grade, the teacher requested a conference with my mom and shared that I was reading by sight, but not breaking words down into letters and their individual sounds. Somehow doing those word searches I was memorizing what a word looked like and could say it as one of my sight words, but couldn't associate the individual letters with sounds. I had an amazing sight word vocabulary, but I had to be completely retaught how to use phonics to read because I would never be able to decode new words without it.

    That said, a fellow second grade teacher (now retired) was often asked, "What can I do to help my child read?" and her response was always, "Let us take care of it, and you provide the experiences we can't" like dance classes, music lessons, and trips to science museums. But I feel that there's also a strong argument for supplementing schooling at home, particularly during the summer. Elementary school students lose two months' learning if they do nothing over the summer. Our school is rewarding kids for reading and doing math lessons during the summer with our own version of the Olympics. 1= math lessons = bronze medal, 15 = silver, and 20 = gold. For reading, we're trying to create a paper chain (1 link per book or chapter read) to go from one end of the school to the other. I'm hoping lots of kids are participating this summer, because the summer slide is pretty bad for some kids.

    As for teaching reading . . . well, Justin can recognize a J. I'm not sure how far beyond that he knows. I downloaded some apps on the iPad for tracing letters, but haven't pulled it out once this summer. We've read close to 75 books since summer started, and we work on comprehension and determining fiction vs. non-fiction. I have him point out clues in the story that show that it's a fictional work (i.e., chickens don't wear clothes or talk in real life). I use large vocabulary words around him, then define them with common words he knows. We try retelling stories with three factual sentences about the plot (First . . . , then . . . , and finally . . . ). I have him recall two things that happened every day and have him tell me about them (What was the best thing that happened today? What was your least favorite thing?) We stop a book and make predictions about what might happen before continuing. He's started taking a music class at daycare, and he's finally singing along with songs, so we're watching the same Wiggles DVD 50 times over in the car so he can sing along and I clarify words he doesn't understand in the songs. Basically, I know he'll be doing a lot of letter work in preschool next year, so I'm working on the other aspects of learning to read.

    As for kindergarten readiness, I was sitting in the teachers' lounge last year when the PreK parents were filling out the K screening tool. One mom looked at it and said, "Are you kidding me? I think I just failed it!" I asked to take a peek at it, and it was all about how much sleep they get at night, what their children's temperament was, how often they cried, if they were shy, etc. This year I designed the document for our kindergarten readiness screening tool at another school. The kids were shuffled from room to room by escorts for vision and hearing tests, fine motor skills evaluation, simple math and reading screenings (sorry, I didn't get to see the actual tools they used), and casual interviews. The comments on the K readiness were mostly about whether the parents and/or kids had anxiety separating from one another, if the child refused to participate or cried or was excessively anxious, if they might need speech/language services, if they spoke a different language at home, any behavior issues that cropped up, etc. The actual letters/"reading" piece of it is quite small in comparison to all they're looking at.
    100_4667_zpspk4wwxj5.jpg
    r9vOm4.png
    Ri4Gm4.png
  • Options
    ShannyShanny Posts: 2,456
    edited November -1
    Kari - really good points about all of the OTHER things you can do to get kids comfortable and eager to learn to read without actually sitting down with a SEE SPOT RUN book!

    Also, interesting points about kindergarten readiness. When I toured the Montessori school that I eventually want Kate to go to for Elementary the youngest (pre K and K) kids have more of an evaluation, older kids test in. When I asked about the evaluation she wouldn't give a lot of details but the one thing that kept coming up was "readiness" as in OK leaving parents and being in a classroom environment.

    Mel, you crack me up. But I'd really like to see someone try to read a word they have never seen before without sounding it out. How does that happen? They must be.....Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious???? or "Atoning for educability through delicate beauty."
    image_zps64579b54.png
  • Options
    pbpb Posts: 83
    edited November -1
    Regardless of age most kids learn to read with sight words-believe it or not. Start with the word at then and a picture of a cat so there you know 2 words and the building of vocab continues If an adult has to "sound out new words" it makes me wonder. Beckham can read anything this way-people ask him to do it all the time just like he knows all the makes and models of every car/truck driven (he was taught those either). He was taught to read and write his name by parts BECK and HAM. Never phonetically. Everyone's first experience with words is rot memory (A,B,C's) And I would love to see all you adults "sounding out words" if you never saw the word before. Beckham breaks new words in pieces. Oh yes and I always say things that aren't true-face the reality.
  • Options
    melmel Posts: 793
    edited November -1
    pb wrote:
    Oh yes and I always say things that aren't true-face the reality.

    Not always, but we both know you haven't been entirely truthful about more than a couple things here over the years.

    Breaking words into pieces is what we're talking about. I wasn't saying people sound out words aloud. It's part of the reading process. I'm surprised that concept is so hard for you to grasp, since (you have said in the past) you were an English teacher. Like Shanny said, people read unfamiliar words by putting together familiar sounds, which they know from familiar letter combinations. Do you really disagree with that? I can't imagine you do, as it's exactly what you said Beckham does.
    Jjr6m5.png
  • Options
    pbpb Posts: 83
    edited November -1
    Breaking words apart is using sight words. I have been truthful you just chose not to believe (like I care) and yes I'm an English teacher. If an adult has to see a word for
    I'm still laughing at the thought of adults "sounding out words in their head". Beckhams new and wonderful word is carnage. He read it on a DVD we told him what it meant and now he uses it every time he can fit it in a sentence. He never saw the word before.

    This has become a personal issue and I'm very sorry to the OP.
  • Options
    lolabellolabel Posts: 99
    edited July 2012
    Reading is a complex matter. It's about language, which has three sub-systems: graphonic (visual AND phonic), semantic (knowledge in the field/system) , and syntactic (grammar etc.). For "reading" to occur in a meaningful way, all three subsystems are engaged. If you just have one but not the others, meaning isn't gleaned from the word forms, and comprehension is what reading is about - the letter recognition is the tool to achieve that. There's a fantastic book on reading at primary (elementary) school level that deals with all these issues that's available on Google Books, I've linked to the page on the subsystems. Whether kids recognize word forms or sounds is pretty irrelevant until they can create meaning from them. The "memory" reading is a stage on the way to that, as is the phonic puzzling out of words (which does continue as adults if people want to learn new vocabulary), and all the stages are important for establishing and maintaining the full system. There's a great task the author sets to show the difference between letter and word "reading" and actually being able to understand. (You can do it yourself by reading a page in another language, like French (she uses Maori) - you can read it, but it doesn't mean you can "read" it.)
    Something left out of the prior discussions is the importance of modeling. As well as reading to our kids and helping them with their reading, it's extremely powerful for them to see us reading. If reading is an important, valued adult activity, it helps create the desire and value in young readers.

    The link: http://books.google.com/books?id=yzLcvlYFoT0C&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=how+does+reading+work?&source=bl&ots=6VYeDlHG8e&sig=uj20RQxL2coP9Tq3bOR1cH0r_ok&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DrYCUMGKM8WR6wG16ODtBg&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=how%20does%20reading%20work%3F&f=false
    Mother to a 4 year old who has changed my whole world for the better!
  • Options
    KariKari Posts: 1,765
    edited November -1
    Okay, normally I stay quiet when there's controversy, but the former first grade teacher in me has to state something about sight words. The term "sight words" is a specific list of words (also known as the Dolch Sight Words). I'm not adding to the argument about people's honesty or at what age kids learn to read. I just want to clarify that you may both be using the same term but not in the correct way, so there's some confusion. Words you know by sight are not necessarily "sight words." They are words you've memorized. Sight words are words you HAVE to know/memorize by sight because they don't follow rules to figure them out otherwise. Breaking apart words is using the phonics approach (i.e., knowing that certain letter combinations make a specific sound, like ing, er, ed, pre, re, and words that follow a CVC or CVVC or CVCV pattern).

    Well, let me take it directly from a website:

    "The Dolch-Sight Word List is a list compiled by E.W. Dolch in 1936. The list contains 220 commonly used words that should be recognized by "sight" for fast or "fluent" reading. The compilation excludes nouns, which comprise a separate 95-word list.

    Many of the 220 Dolch words do not follow the basic phonics princples, so they cannot be "sounded out." They should be learned by sight. Dolch words are now often referred to simply as "sight words." "

    http://www.spellingcity.com/dolch-words.html

    Sight words are meant to be memorized because they don't follow the rules. Examples of sight words include could, again, blue, come, down, if, how, and after. The rest of the words are meant to be sounded out following phonics principles. Here's the complete list: http://www.mrsperkins.com/dolch-words-all-freq-by-grade-printable.pdf

    If you don't learn to sound words out using phonics then you'll never be able to pronounce words like plagiarism, nuance, harangue, labyrinthine, ensconce, lachrymose, abstemious, ephemeral, etc. [taken from frequently-used word lists for the SATs]. You have to rely on phonics and sounding out individual letter sounds, common letter combinations, known language rules, etc. There are no sight words found within those words.
    100_4667_zpspk4wwxj5.jpg
    r9vOm4.png
    Ri4Gm4.png
  • Options
    pbpb Posts: 83
    edited November -1
    All that is important is that I know Beckham can read because Beckham can read. Why anyone uses phonics anymore is beyond me. But to each their own. Honestly, I will never meet you people so I can careless!!!!
Sign In or Register to comment.