Ruh ro. Santa?

Shanny

We've never done the whole "Santa" thing in our house. I've talked to Kate about how different people believe different things (same conversation we have about God) but it hasn't been an issue. Until now. I just got a text from a friend whose son is in Kate's class. Apparently they had a little chat today and she told him Santa isn't real and that parents just hide presents. Not sure what "hide" is about unless she's mixing the Easter bunny in there as well! She did say she believes in the Elf on the Shelf which is hilarious because she has NO clue what that is!

Last year she wasn't really old enough to get into much of a discussion. Seems times are a changing. I'm afraid if I talk to her tomorrow morning she will just walk into school and tell this little boy "my mom said that some people believe and some people don't". I'm not sure that's going to make this other family feel better. What should I do/say? She's bright but, she's 5. She deals only in reality. There's no room for fantasy in her little head so I'm not sure what the right thing to say is to make her understand that we don't want to dissuade others from their beliefs and by telling them you don't believe you are kind if doing that. Help!

MNmommas

I don't know... we might end up struggling with this as well as we won't be doing the "fat guy comes down your chimney" bit either. When it comes down to it, I want my kids to feel confident speaking their truths (and respecting others, although "fat guy who comes down chimneys" is obviously NOT a "truth"), and I don't feel that my children are responsible for continuing the beliefs of others. If the other kid believes, then they believe. If their belief isn't strong enough and my kid's different view causes their belief to falter.. well, that's on their parents, I guess. I know that totally sounds harsh - I cringed a little when I reread it - but what else are my kids supposed to do? And what about everyone else who isn't down with the whole Santa business, like any Jehovah's Witnesses, Jewish classmates, Christians who are putting the focus only on Jesus at Christmas, etc? Like you said, Shanny, she's only 5, and she deals only in reality. I think it's completely acceptable if you talk to her like you're planning to and she ends up saying what you fear she will say. It's not offensive, it's not shooting him down or disrespecting him. It's just her telling her truth, which IMO is a good thing. Even if sometimes the truth hurts, right?

K&H

Does she not do fairies, dragons, gnomes, elves, Greek and Roman gods.... Nothing?
I suppose if you're going all reality, all the time, then it might be time for a discussion of the origin of Santa. And a talk about the origins of myths, legends, fantasy.
Santa is a variation on St Nicholas who lived a long time ago. People want to believe stories of those who are generous and giving, and so they continue telling the story of someone who gives without getting, and gives to those he doesn't know. Over time the story has changed a lot and now, in the US, most people tell the story with details about the North Pole, elves, and reindeer. But in other countries they have other stories about Santa and believe other things. It's nice that everyone can have different beliefs for what fits their family. Our family chooses... (Whatever you want to fill in). Family stories and beliefs are often very important to people and it's considerate of their feelings to not tell them they're wrong, or that you know "the truth". To them, this representation of giving and generosity is their truth that they believe right now. We should never assume that we know the only truth, because everyone has their own perspective and thoughts and it's not considerate of us to throw out what they say simply because we don't choose to believe that "truth". To them it is the truth, even though to us it isn't. We need to always consider other people's feelings when we make a decision about what to say. Sometimes the more considerate thing is to not say anything at all and then come home and discuss it with mommy. Other people's stories and beleifs don't hurt us. Sometimes their actions hurt us, but that's not the case here, and if someone's actions hurt you then we can talk about what to do in that situation. But different beliefs don't hurt, so it's thoughtful and considerate to not challenge other people's beleifs.

TheOtherLovingMoms

I agree with MN, my son never believed in Santa and when he was in Kindy he had his entire class in an uproar because he told them all that Santa is just something the adults made up to get their kids to behave and that the parents buy the presents and put them under the tree after all the kids go to sleep. His classmates went home and told their parents and a lot of parents complained to the school about it. I told them he doesn't believe in Santa and he has a right to voice his opinion and if the parents don't like it well then let them figure out what to tell their child. He does go along with the whole Santa thing for his nieces benefit though lol. He is 18 now.

Shanny

So I asked her this morning if they talked about this yesterday and she told me no, twice. So she lied which is exactly what I'm trying to teach her by being honest about Santa! I reassured her she was not in trouble and we sat down and talked about it for a while. She almost starting to cry saying she just wanted him to know the truth. We ended it that if it comes up again she can say "I'm happy for you that you believe in Santa" and then maybe they could discuss what they want to give and get as gifts this year.

I felt bad last night but honestly after seeing her upset this morning I'm kind of annoyed that other people choosing to lie to their kids is putting ME in this position.

And no K&H, she does not believe in fairies, unicorns, dragons or other mythical creatures. First and foremost she'd be terrified if she thought those things were real. She likes to "pretend" by playing house, kitty cats etc but never using anything she can't grasp. Even when she hears about super heros and they play that on the play ground for a few days it is always short lived and she never really enjoys it. It's just who she is.

EMG_REL

I like what K&H said about discussing the origins to keep it "real". Then, she might be less inclined to speak up and upset people.

aplusa

I was gonna go typical me and say, "wait! There's no Santa?!"

But then the thread got kinda serious.

Today on Facebook a friend of mine wrote the following post:

"I asked my son X (who is 4ish) what he wants to wear to halloween at school. I said it had to be something 'God created.' He said 'dinosaur.' "

Someone asked why the frowny face. She explained that she thought religions didn't support the existence of dinosaurs.

Obviously, some religions don't. Many do. Her information is partially correct and I assume, but don't know, that her son likely attends a faith based school that doesn't believe in dinosaurs.

That is their truth. They use faith and a Bible to develop their truth. I use archaeology to develop my truth in the existence of dinosaurs. And I use blockbusters like Jurrasic Park to know that we can totally bring them back. Side note.

My children will be taught respect above all else. You can disagree, and I'm sure they will, but your argument and discussion must come from a place of respect and tolerance of differences.

And yes, they'll have Santa and easter bunnies and dragons and fairies .... Because in some way and shape and form, I do believe all those things exist. Personal preference. I didn't really ever think a fat man was coming down the chimney in a literal sense, that I can remember, but I believe wholly in the magic of the christmas season.

But, I went to college for poetry and now I'm a designer. Hard facts and realities were never my strong point.

If it was me, and it's not, I like how K&H put it. It puts a strong emphasis on cultural difference and identity. That way you can raise a little anthropologist or sociologist.

Shanny

Ya know I am really just kind of annoyed that this Mom (who again is a friend) made it seem like Kate did something "wrong" and that it was something I needed to fix. I didn't get all upset that her kid tried to convince mine that Santa was real or that he told her all about the Elf which she had no prior knowledge of. Such a double standard.

And these are 5 year olds we are talking about so of course they have no filter and don't think before they speak. Of course we discuss things and work on that but I am not going to make my child feel like she did anything wrong.

K&H

Maybe the annoyance for the other mom came in what she thinks Kate said (which may or may not be "true"). Does she think Kate said "that's not true", or "I don't believe that"? In my mind these are two very different things and need discussion on your part in very different ways. To tell someone else that their beliefs aren't true just isn't nice, no matter what the belief may be. It's aggressive and inconsiderate (yes, I know, they're 5, thus it's not that big a deal, but a learning opportunity for both sides). To tell someone else that you don't believe the same thing they do is a generally harmless expression of free will and personal choice, and in that case I think Kate is perfectly fine, tho more exploration of the pros and cons of voicing dissent makes this also a learning opportunity.
Perhaps a face to face talk with the mom will help clear things up. It's possible she's laughing over the whole thing but communicating over text is muddying the waters. Who knows!

babybaby

i am coming from the position of happily entertaining these kinds of delusions with my kids. i always thought of this as just something they will come across in school and something i will just have to deal with--that one day another child will tell them that santa doesn't currently exist. after all, they likely won't be 10, 9 or even 8 and still believe in santa claus. i don't see what the big deal is.

Zen

We haven't had the Santa conversation (mine kinda believes) but we have had conversations about beliefs themselves. Mostly religious. Different people believe different things and it's all okay. In our case, usually we're the only Jewish people and my purpose is for her to be strong enough not to fall prey to those who want to save her through Jesus!

Shanny's story brought home an old old memory of my discussing where babies came from. I never knew the stork brought them and it certainly didn't occur to me at age 5-6 not to contradict that story! I'm sorry that Kate felt bad about her part in the conversation.

In my house last year my 12 year old couldn't wait to see what Santa brought. My [then] 5 year old understood that Santa brings presents but also knows that he has lots and lots of helpers to assist with shopping and delivery. All the kids loved seeing Santa at the mall. My take on it is that it's a fun myth to perpetuate. They can believe as much as they want for as long as they want. Reality is there whenever they wish to clue in. And if they never do ... I'm okay with donning a red cap

old mama

In this day and age kids just don't believe like they used to. My large family of children were adopted and I didn't feel they needed to be lied to even with good sweet intentions about Santa and the Easter bunny. Many had been through too much trauma and it took a lot of effort to gain their trust. We did however do Easter baskets and did have Santa decorations and other fun holiday things. I just told the kids that Santa was a feeling we each got inside ourselves to do nice things for the people we cared about. I was a teacher and I too had a parent come in irate that one of my students told the class there was no Santa..hey the kids were first graders...I would have thought they had a clue long before the student's announcement. At that point there was nothing much I could do but made it clear that we were just not going to talk about Santa in my class any longer that some families believed and some did not.

syoung0204

K&H wrote:

Does she not do fairies, dragons, gnomes, elves, Greek and Roman gods.... Nothing?
I suppose if you're going all reality, all the time, then it might be time for a discussion of the origin of Santa. And a talk about the origins of myths, legends, fantasy.
Santa is a variation on St Nicholas who lived a long time ago. People want to believe stories of those who are generous and giving, and so they continue telling the story of someone who gives without getting, and gives to those he doesn't know. Over time the story has changed a lot and now, in the US, most people tell the story with details about the North Pole, elves, and reindeer. But in other countries they have other stories about Santa and believe other things. It's nice that everyone can have different beliefs for what fits their family. Our family chooses... (Whatever you want to fill in). Family stories and beliefs are often very important to people and it's considerate of their feelings to not tell them they're wrong, or that you know "the truth". To them, this representation of giving and generosity is their truth that they believe right now. We should never assume that we know the only truth, because everyone has their own perspective and thoughts and it's not considerate of us to throw out what they say simply because we don't choose to believe that "truth". To them it is the truth, even though to us it isn't. We need to always consider other people's feelings when we make a decision about what to say. Sometimes the more considerate thing is to not say anything at all and then come home and discuss it with mommy. Other people's stories and beleifs don't hurt us. Sometimes their actions hurt us, but that's not the case here, and if someone's actions hurt you then we can talk about what to do in that situation. But different beliefs don't hurt, so it's thoughtful and considerate to not challenge other people's beleifs.

Completely agree!

On another note, this whole conversation reminds me of "Big Fish".

babybaby

syoung0204 wrote:

On another note, this whole conversation reminds me of "Big Fish".

love that movie! the dad character always reminds me of my own dad.

jennanderson

MNmommas wrote:

I don't know... and I don't feel that my children are responsible for continuing the beliefs of others. If the other kid believes, then they believe. If their belief isn't strong enough and my kid's different view causes their belief to falter.. well, that's on their parents, I guess. I know that totally sounds harsh - I cringed a little when I reread it - but what else are my kids supposed to do?

I love this. It just reminded me of how my political views changed over the years. I was brought up with an extremely conservative mom, and a conservative red neck/country dad. As my life experiences changed, as I met more people, etc. a lot of my opinions changed. Just like eventually this child will see his truth and his beliefs will eventually change. We all find our own truths for everything there is two (or more) sides to. Does that make sense?

I remember when I found out Santa wasn't true. The "Santa" wrapping paper that the present was wrapped in was stashed away in the attic which my younger sister and I decided to explore. I don't remember how old I was (8 or 9 maybe?) it was not some life altering event, but I definitely don't like the lying part of Santa. I will not "do Santa" with my kids.

merilung

I was reading through this for future knowledge (DH and I are definitely not doing Santa with our kids, so it's something that could come up for us someday!) and realized our families must do Santa for a freakishly long time. I was 12 before I was told that Santa wasn't real, and my Sister in Law is obsessed with keeping my 10 year old nephew from doubting Santa!

Shanny

Merilung - def a question of when, not if it will come up with your kids and their friends. She's not yet 6 and it has come up every year for the last 3 at least. It's exhausting helping other parents lie to their children!